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  #21  
Old 15 February 2018, 04:27 PM
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The change many of us would like to see may yet happen. Also news yesterday, Remington Arms is filing for bankruptcy protection as a result of the Sandy Hook shootings and lawsuits. Their Bushmaster AR-15 was used there.

The NRA is working overtime to expand gun rights--laws legalizing suppressors, "constitutional carry" which is concealed carry with no permitting process, etc. I know they have advocated for laws to prevent lawsuits aimed at gun sellers and manufacturers. I think that they are going further out on a limb which may get sawed off. And not like a shotgun barrel.

It is being noted on social media that limits to gun access for those with mental illness disappeared federally. This applied to people who were held as a result of being seen as a credible threat to their own or others's safety, not the depressed (or DUIs).

NPR said that there were 8 million AR-15 in private hands in this country. Wow. we have never really attempted to take guns from citizens, but the argument is growing. Past Supreme Court decisions relied on the "well-regulated militia" segment of the 2nd Amendment for federal rules, I don't know how badly damaged this way by more recent rulings.

Ali

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  #22  
Old 15 February 2018, 04:42 PM
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When is it time to talk about not killing kids?

Only before they're born? After that, they're fair game?

God in Heaven, our society should not tolerate this.
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  #23  
Old 15 February 2018, 05:13 PM
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So if the "real" problem is mental health, then Cruz should be found not guilty by reason of insanity, right?
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  #24  
Old 15 February 2018, 05:22 PM
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Now a white supremacist militia claims the shooter was one of their own. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/break...hvT?li=BBnb7Kz
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  #25  
Old 15 February 2018, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
The right gun laws do prevent shootings, research strongly indicates. And these laws do not mean confiscating everybody’s guns. Scientific American spoke with Garen Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis, Medical Center, and Daniel Webster, director of Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health’s Center for Gun Policy and Research, about four feasible legal and policy changes that would be most effective. Here are the life-saving laws and the data that supports them.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ext_resurface#
Hold on! This kid wasn't married, so couldn't have been a "domestic violence offender"; he hasn't even had his drivers license for 5 years, so he probably hasn't had 2 DUIs in 5 years. The gun was purchased legally. See? Those laws wouldn't have stopped this shooting, so we shouldn't even try enacting these common sense legislations. [/tongue-in-cheek]
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  #26  
Old 15 February 2018, 06:12 PM
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Is it sad that I don't even feel it anymore when these shootings happen? Given how frequently they occur now, I'm pretty blasé about it. And I absolutely hate that.
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  #27  
Old 15 February 2018, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psihala View Post
I think LPP was just using partying as one example.
Yes, thank you. I also said that drinking and driving is behaving irresponsibly with a deadly weapon. I’m not diminishing that particular crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Monkey View Post
There's plenty of people who like partying who are responsible enough not to drink drive.
That’s kind of my point. The article makes a broader connection between binge drinking (which I called partying, because the definitions overlap) and violence. The article calls binge drinking alcohol abuse, with or without drunk driving, and says “There’s just no question that alcohol abuse is a risk factor for future violence in the general population, and it’s specifically a risk factor for future firearm violence.” It also suggests that people guilty of “another crime that indicates alcohol abuse” should lose their guns as well, not just those guilty of a DUI.

This feels like too broad a brush. The definition of binge drinking overlaps with those of partying and social drinking, so many people are going to respond exactly as you did. If he’d just stuck with the DUI statistics and argued for that, he might be more successful. But let’s start with the first three laws he proposed, at least.
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  #28  
Old 15 February 2018, 07:42 PM
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Jaded Paul Ryan says there are "laws on the books" to help prevent gun violence

Speaker Paul Ryan, in his weekly press conference, said there are already laws on the books that need to be enforced to help prevent situations similar to the shooting at the high school in Parkland, Florida, Wednesday.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-ry...ss-conference/
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  #29  
Old 15 February 2018, 07:52 PM
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IMHO, the first think we need to do is related to that study. We need to make the CDC study firearm violence and provide the funding to do so. While there are certainly studies such as that one by private groups, the previous legislation and the CDC's reaction to it could be limiting such research.

ETA: Ryan said,"This is not the time to jump to some conclusion not knowing the full facts. We've got a lot more information we need to know." Now step aside while I jump to a conclusion without knowing the full facts.
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  #30  
Old 15 February 2018, 08:10 PM
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So Trump tweeted that this is a mental health issue. Why do I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that if this young man's name was Mohammed that he'd be talking about terrorism?
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  #31  
Old 15 February 2018, 08:19 PM
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Because the Republican playbook has only four sentences?
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  #32  
Old 15 February 2018, 08:28 PM
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Default FBI was warned about Florida man accused of killing 17 at school

The Federal Bureau of Investigation was warned in September about an ominous online comment by the 19-year-old man accused of killing 17 people at his former high school but was unable to locate him, an agent said on Thursday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...-idUSKCN1FZ15J


For 5 months they couldn’t find him? Or that day?
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  #33  
Old 15 February 2018, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
IMHO, the first think we need to do is related to that study. We need to make the CDC study firearm violence and provide the funding to do so. While there are certainly studies such as that one by private groups, the previous legislation and the CDC's reaction to it could be limiting such research.

ETA: Ryan said,"This is not the time to jump to some conclusion not knowing the full facts. We've got a lot more information we need to know." Now step aside while I jump to a conclusion without knowing the full facts.
GenYus, in 1996 the Repulican-controlled Congress threatened to shut down the CDC if it continued to study firearm violence. I have friends who work for the CDC who are angry as hell that they've been silenced on this issue. I agree with you--it clearly should be part of their mission. Trouble is, the firearms lobby does not give its consent.
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  #34  
Old 15 February 2018, 08:50 PM
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It’s infuriating that congress can receive money from lobbyists. It doesn’t even feel like a democracy.
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  #35  
Old 15 February 2018, 08:56 PM
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The Dickey Amendment was a ban on gun advocacy, not strictly against any gun research. Heads of the CDC have taken the safe route and just not done any research on guns at all. But back in 2013, Obama ordered the CDC to research gun violence and they did limited research. But Congress has not provided dedicated funding for such studies, nor has it rescinded the Dickey Amendment, meaning any such research needs to avoid any suggestion of possible solutions that would involve any controls on guns.
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  #36  
Old 15 February 2018, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarm View Post
45 days into the year and this is, what... the 18th mass shooting?
Not quite. It is the 18th school shooting.

It is the 30th mass shooting.

http://metro.co.uk/2018/02/15/many-m...-2018-7314649/
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  #37  
Old 16 February 2018, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
Not quite. It is the 18th school shooting.
Not really. "18" is somewhat inflated and includes things like a shooting at a school that had been closed for months.
Washington Post.

Still, given we are only about 45 days into the year there were roughly a dozen school shootings.
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  #38  
Old 16 February 2018, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TallGeekyGirl View Post

Now my previous post feels entirely too glib about everything. In the off-chance Mr. Roeder is reading this, I’m sorry. I’ve more or less come to use sarcasm and black comedy as a way of coping (sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying), but in light of stuff like this, I totally understand that I can come across as the most insensitive person ever.

Maybe the time has come where we need to grab Paul Ryan and co., all the NRA’s spokespeople, and everyone of the anti-gun control NFBSKs, drag them by the collars to the site of the latest shooting, show them pictures of the wounded and murdered, and be like, “Give us something besides ‘Thoughts and prayers,’ you son of a bitch!”

It’s an extreme, overly emotional response and there will probably be some Snopesters who will point this out, but I think for all the people I mentioned in my previous paragraph, these shootings have ceased to actually be recognized as something horrible that happened to a lot of good people, guilty of just trying to live their everyday lives, and merely become headlines on CNN.

I’m wondering if maybe we could bring about actual change, simply by showing the world the pictures. Not just family or yearbook photos of the victims, or the perp’s mugshot, and vigils and shrines set up in memorium, but of actual pictures of the victims and the scene.

That’s supposedly what helped turn the public against the Vietnam War: pictures of the carnage. Photos like the one of Phan Thị Kim Phúc, running down the road after being napalmed, brought home the cold reality of what was going on over there and made the carnage a lot less abstract.

Maybe something similar would work regarding mass shootings in the States. Though at the same time, I am well aware how disrespectful this sounds when it comes to the victims. Their surviving relatives are going through enough shit; they want to remember their loved one as a happy, vibrant human being, not as a cold body lying in a corner. Still, sometimes images have a power like nothing else. A non-Vietnam War example: Mamie Till’s insistence on having her son’s mangled body shown to the world.

If nothing else, maybe we can try to make Wonderella’s Some Asshole Initiative a reality. It’s not going to happen, but it’s more likely than anything else I’ve mentioned in this post.
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  #39  
Old 16 February 2018, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
Not really. "18" is somewhat inflated and includes things like a shooting at a school that had been closed for months.
Washington Post.

Still, given we are only about 45 days into the year there were roughly a dozen school shootings.
Fair enough. 18 is being reported all over the place, so I thought it was vetted.

A dozen makes it all better! [aimed at gun culture, not at anyone on this board]
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  #40  
Old 16 February 2018, 03:09 PM
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My reaction to that WP article was one is too damn many so why have a fit about an "over inflated" number? It really doesn't matter a lick to me if it's a school shooting, and suicide, a mass shooting, whatever. It's all too much and it's never going to stop because there's money to be made. It's sickening.
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