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  #61  
Old 02 February 2018, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by UEL View Post
Ignorant is a valid word.
I appreciate it. And sorry. I just didn't have another handy.
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However, legally, there is no legally defined need if it does not fit the definition of disability.
I don't see what these labels and legal definitions have to do with anything. Unless the airlines are prohibited from providing these accommodations.
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  #62  
Old 02 February 2018, 01:47 AM
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And airlines are well able to handle live animals. It's routine.
The actual death rate is pretty low, though there are some every year who don't arrive alive. I tried but failed to find statistics for comparison for the number of humans who don't survive a trip on a plane, aside from plane crashes; because of course the humans are almost always in the cabin. But there are probably also a lot more humans who fly while ill than pets who do so; so I'm not sure how useful such statistics would be if I had found them.

Actual death or major injury isn't the only issue, though. There doesn't seem to be any required reporting of the number of cases in which animals arrive alive but one or more of seriously traumatized, filthy, dehydrated, unfed, bruised, overheated, chilled; but manage to recover without the aid of a veterinary, or with the aid of a veterinary but without the airline's accepting any responsibility. And, of course, non-human animals can't report on whether they spent part of a flight in serious physical, let alone mental, distress, as long as the signs of it aren't apparent by the time their human's able to get to them again; so at least some cases of major distress are presumably not only unreported but unreportable.

While it's not possible to guarantee that travel, in the cabin or otherwise, is non-stressful -- for some creatures it's pretty much guaranteed to be stressful -- at least if they're in the cabin with their humans the human travelling with them can tell if they're overheated, chilled, have no water, etc. and can usually do something about it. And the presence of a familiar human can provide at least a little bit of reassurance. Would you ship a four-year-old child, say, in a cargo hold, separated from everyone the child knew, even if you were guaranteed that the child would arrive physically unharmed?

I agree that the best thing to do, if it's reasonably avoidable, is not to take non-humans on the plane at all. Sometimes, however, it's not reasonably avoidable. And some people can't avoid shipping in cargo, either. But it really does seem that there should be some better way of dealing with this. Maybe a separate section of some planes, or certain specific flights?

(As far as incentive for other people to fill up the seats on such flights: I doubt it would be necessary to give discounts. If I were going to fly anywhere and had the money, I would if anything pay extra to be on the flight that had dogs and cats in the cabin.)
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  #63  
Old 02 February 2018, 03:32 AM
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I tried and failed to find statistics, as well, but what I did find was the almost all the animal deaths on planes occure in the cargo hold, due to exposure. Pets in the cabin did fine, except for one pug who died of respitory distress under the seat.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/trave...-risk-6241533/
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  #64  
Old 02 February 2018, 05:15 AM
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Airplane

In fact, of the ten airlines Time magazine lists as best, six do not permit pets as checked baggage at all: Virgin America, JetBlue, Southwest, Frontier, Allegiant, and Spirit. If it's so routine, what gives? Again, I'm going to trust the people in the business before I trust a random opinion. That's not to say that it means pets in the cargo are unsafe but it does seem to refute the opinion that it's "routine".
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  #65  
Old 02 February 2018, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
In fact, of the ten airlines Time magazine lists as best, six do not permit pets as checked baggage at all: Virgin America, JetBlue, Southwest, Frontier, Allegiant, and Spirit. If it's so routine, what gives? Again, I'm going to trust the people in the business before I trust a random opinion. That's not to say that it means pets in the cargo are unsafe but it does seem to refute the opinion that it's "routine".
“What gives” is that it is more complicatied and expensive to transport live animals in the hold. It requires more planning to load the aircraft (=$), the heating in the hold has to be switched on (=$) you need the staff and resources (airline or outsourced) at both ends to process the live cargo (=$) plus tons of legislative requirements to meet.

Routine for some carriers, not an option for others.
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  #66  
Old 02 February 2018, 09:36 AM
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That doesn't sound routine at all.
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  #67  
Old 02 February 2018, 01:16 PM
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What legislative requirements are there for airlines to transport animals in the hold?
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  #68  
Old 02 February 2018, 01:49 PM
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I would assume that the legislative requirements for live cargo are more strenuous than that for... unliving cargo - air circulation, temperature, etc. - things that affect live creatures. Your shirt doesn't care what the air pressure is. yes, I know that some unliving cargo is sensitive to temperature; if you're shipping something that needs special handling, you handle it. JetBlue is a discount airline. If they never ever accept animal cargo, they don't have to worry about temperature in the cargo hold, so it reduces their costs.
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  #69  
Old 02 February 2018, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
That doesn't sound routine at all.
Why not? Anything can be routine. If an airline commonly ships live animals as part of the cargo hold, checking the manifest and adjusting the conditions in the hold should be routine.
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  #70  
Old 02 February 2018, 02:56 PM
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Many airlines allow animals in the hold. Some insist on it.

https://www.skyscanner.net/news/airline-pet-fees
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  #71  
Old 02 February 2018, 03:23 PM
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And some refuse to do it, as has already been pointed out.
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  #72  
Old 02 February 2018, 03:47 PM
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Airplane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Off View Post
Many airlines allow animals in the hold. Some insist on it.

https://www.skyscanner.net/news/airline-pet-fees

Someone, oh someone, please provide an explanation for the statement below that lives up to my fantasies! (Emphasis mine.)
Quote:
Animals are not permitted in the cabin of Emirates flights. Exceptions are made for falcons between Dubai and certain destinations in Pakistan. Guide dogs are permitted.
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  #73  
Old 02 February 2018, 04:06 PM
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Falconry is very big in both countries and it is not uncommon to transport Falcons one way or another.
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  #74  
Old 02 February 2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
Falconry is very big in both countries and it is not uncommon to transport Falcons one way or another.
Assignment accomplished. Thanks.
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  #75  
Old 02 February 2018, 06:50 PM
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Here is a more detailed CNN article on it including a photo of a cabin full of falcons.
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  #76  
Old 02 February 2018, 08:26 PM
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That is a great photo, GenYus. I'd be ok with falcons on planes here in America as long as they were hooded so they didn't screech.
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  #77  
Old 02 February 2018, 08:43 PM
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It’s really all about the poop. Raptors poop hot liquid dead things. It stinks and it’s messy. I’d rather share a plane with a peacock, tbh.

Actually, now that I think on it, they probably don’t feed them before they fly. They usually withhold food before hunts, iirc.
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  #78  
Old 03 February 2018, 04:46 AM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
Why not? Anything can be routine.
If anything can be routine then it doesn't mean much to say that something is routine. So it doesn't say anything meaningful about this, so... that can't be the definition he meant? In any case, even by the widest of definitions, we do not call something routine if it's not done at all (that's the opposite of routine) so for those six of the top ten airlines (and several others in NA), it isn't routine.
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  #79  
Old 09 February 2018, 03:20 AM
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Beaver Woman says airline told her to flush emotional support hamster down toilet

A Florida woman says an airline told her to flush her hamster down an airport toilet because the emotional support rodent wasn't allowed to fly with her. The Miami Herald reports before Belen Aldecosea flew home from college to South Florida, she twice called Spirit Airlines to ensure she could bring Pebbles, her pet dwarf hamster. No problem, the airline said.

But when Aldecosea arrived at the Baltimore airport, Spirit refused to allow the animal onboard. The 21-year-old told the paper she flushed Pebbles at an airline employee's suggestion, after running out of other options.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida...irit-airlines/
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  #80  
Old 09 February 2018, 04:48 AM
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I have trouble believing that anyone who had a genuine emotional-support animal would dispose of it so casually.
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