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Old 14 July 2013, 02:03 AM
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Florida Florida jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty

A Florida jury found George Zimmerman not guilty in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, in a case that sparked a national debate on race and guns.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...96C07420130714
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  #2  
Old 14 July 2013, 02:06 AM
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Yea, I figured they were going to at least get him on manslaughter

Not entirely sure how I feel about it.
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  #3  
Old 14 July 2013, 02:09 AM
TB Tabby TB Tabby is offline
 
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Depressed? Sickened? Enraged? Fearful of the legal precedent being set? That about covers it.
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Old 14 July 2013, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by TB Tabby View Post
Depressed? Sickened? Enraged? Fearful of the legal precedent being set? That about covers it.
Me too. This really worries me that people are going to see this as an opportunity to exasperate their fears toward people with guns and claim self defense. Its really sickening that you can claim it in the first place when one person isn't even armed. If you can do that, you can claim that they looked funny at you and you thought they were going to jump you.
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Old 14 July 2013, 02:19 AM
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Its really sickening that you can claim it in the first place when one person isn't even armed.
Why? You can be killed by people who aren't armed. That's not to say it was necessarily happening in this case, but self-defense is defense of yourself against being severely harmed, not against being harmed with a particular type of object.
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Old 14 July 2013, 02:19 AM
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I am genuinely surprised at this verdict but I wasn't following the trial at all. Was there anything that came out in the trial that would have pointed to this verdict if I'd been paying attention?
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Old 14 July 2013, 02:20 AM
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Oh boy. Things are about to get really ugly here in central Florida, same as what happened with the Casey Anthony verdict.
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Old 14 July 2013, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by lord_feldon View Post
Why? You can be killed by people who aren't armed. That's not to say it was necessarily happening in this case, but self-defense is defense of yourself against being severely harmed, not against being harmed with a particular type of object.
Your right, of course - I was thinking of this case setting a really bad precedence though where the unarmed person was not a threat. Also where there is no way to prove that such action was necessary.
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Old 14 July 2013, 02:31 AM
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I am genuinely surprised at this verdict but I wasn't following the trial at all. Was there anything that came out in the trial that would have pointed to this verdict if I'd been paying attention?
There was actually very little evidence that would support a guilty verdict. The best eyewitness testimony on the fight showed Martin on top of Zimmerman, who was on his back on the ground, and M was pummeling Z. There was far more and more reliable evidence that the voice screaming for help was Z's. Z had numerous injuries from getting thrown down and pummeled. M was far larger (roughly the same weight, but much taller and stronger). The judge really should have entered a directed verdict - the only way to find even manslaughter was to find that Z had made the first physical attack, and there was absolutely no evidence of that.
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Old 14 July 2013, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I am genuinely surprised at this verdict but I wasn't following the trial at all. Was there anything that came out in the trial that would have pointed to this verdict if I'd been paying attention?
The prosecution was able to disprove very little of Zimmerman's version of events. Some of the scenario put forward by the defense seemed unlikely, but I don't recall any of it being conclusively disproved.

Plus, some of the prosecution witnesses clearly benefited the defense more than the prosecution. The prosecution tried to disprove Zimmerman's version of events, but failed to present any alternate scenario of what actually happened.

I was not surprised. Zimmerman put himself in a bad situation, he is an idiot, but he didn't seem to break any law.

(Spanked by a turtle, although I usually work with tortoises.)
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Old 14 July 2013, 02:34 AM
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If I hear one more comparison of this case to Emmett Till I'm going to hit someone with a history book.
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  #12  
Old 14 July 2013, 03:00 AM
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My initial response to this whole case was anger and incomprehension that Zimmerman wasn't charged or arrested for Martin's killing. I didn't know if he was guilty or not, but I thought he should have to defend himself in front of a jury (or do whatever else in the court processing that he needed to do).

Now that he's been found not guilty, I am disappointed because I think that racism still played an integral part in the jury's perception of his innocence (the jury potentially not liking Rachel Jeantel while not understanding her perspective of the case, for example).

But what I wanted was for this case to go to the courts. They didn't decide what I thought was right, but that's not my place to question. I think they're wrong, but that's the criminal justice process of our country and I accept its outcomes. I'm glad that prosecutors spoke for Trayvon Martin. I'm glad that Zimmerman was made to defend his actions in a court of law. I accept the ruling, even though I think I would have judged differently.
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  #13  
Old 14 July 2013, 03:03 AM
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Disclaimer of the "wasn't on the jury, didn't follow the trial, etc." variety...

This piece kind of gave my gut-level opinion on the general case, however.

Politically, I don't care for the ruling. I worry it will encourage more reckless behavior on the part of armed civilians. I am sure it will even further reduce the confidence in the justice system for African-Americans. And I'm hoping we don't see riots...but I'm not counting on it.

But, factually it may well be correct, at least when we use a "reasonable doubt" standard. It's too bad there wasn't video or something. Though I'm not sure that would have settled it for everyone.

ETA: This piece might be worth a look for anyone who thinks race wasn't a factor.

Last edited by E. Q. Taft; 14 July 2013 at 03:13 AM.
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  #14  
Old 14 July 2013, 03:14 AM
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One more reason to stay away from Florida.
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  #15  
Old 14 July 2013, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderwoman View Post
One more reason to stay away from Florida.
Who says WE should be the ones to stay away?



There were already anti-Zimmerman comments when I found this video.

Last edited by TB Tabby; 14 July 2013 at 03:46 AM.
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  #16  
Old 14 July 2013, 03:36 AM
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The thing about it is, even if it was justified to shoot someone in a fight, it seems to ignore completely that the only reason there was a fight in the first place was that George Zimmerman saw a 17 year old African American walking down the street, minding his own business, and confronted him. I'm hearing on the news that some civil rights groups are going to challenge Stand Your Ground laws over this, and I sure hope they're successful.
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  #17  
Old 14 July 2013, 03:41 AM
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I do too. Because it is apparently alright to "stand your ground" when you are an armed (mostly? Culturally?) white guy stalking a black kid who was suspiciously wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles. However, if you are that black kid you are not allowed to stand your ground against the weirdo with a gun who is stalking you.
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  #18  
Old 14 July 2013, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
... and confronted him.
Cite? I have asked before (probably not you) what evidence there is for this. I keep hearing it claimed, but I have yet to hear of a bit of evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin.
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  #19  
Old 14 July 2013, 03:49 AM
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i'd really like to hear why the prosecution declined to press assault charges as well.
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  #20  
Old 14 July 2013, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
I'm hearing on the news that some civil rights groups are going to challenge Stand Your Ground laws over this, and I sure hope they're successful.
Did this actually end up being a Stand Your Ground case? I thought the defense decided to make it just a self-defense issue, rather than asking for the SYG hearing.
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