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  #41  
Old 18 September 2015, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Monkey View Post
No one thought it was a bomb at any point in the entire saga. If they HAD thought it was a bomb they would have evacuated the other students, separated Ahmed from everyone else, called in the bomb squad, separated Ahmed from the device, etc etc etc.. They never did any of those things. They followed absolutely none of the procedures that they should have taken if they ever suspected Ahmed had an explosive device.

The issue they had (and the reason they called the police) was that they suspected that Ahmed was playing a hoax with a device that looked like a bomb. .
I think you're probably right, because that's also been bugging me. If you think something is or might be a bomb, you either get it out of the school quick, or you get all the people out of the school -- or possibly both, in different directions. You don't leave everyone in the school and march the suspected bomb down to the principal's office.

But that makes it worse, not better. There was no evidence whatsoever that he'd brought it with the intention of threatening anybody. So presuming you're right, the school and the police force both cooperated to haul him off in handcuffs when they knew there was no bomb and when there was no evidence at all of any intended hoax -- which still translates to "anythng wiht wires attached should be expected to be taken for a bomb", or, unfortunately more likely, "anything with wires attached should be expected to be taken for a bomb, if the person with it is or might be taken for Muslim."

If despite his denials and a total lack of anyone claiming to have been threatened, they'd hauled him down to the office and given him a lecture about how he might have accidentally scared somebody and gotten himself in trouble: OK. This might unfortunately have to be an additional version of The Talk for black male teenagers. But having him arrested is absurd.

And to those who said it was reasonable for them to investigate a wired beeping object (was it beeping? I don't know): sure, it was reasonable for them to ask him what it was and to look at it. You probably shouldn't have a beeping thing (if it was beeping) in class anyway, it's a distraction. It was everything that came after that point that's a problem.
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  #42  
Old 18 September 2015, 12:57 PM
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The engineering teacher should have kept the device, or suggested it be stored somewhere in the school. She reportedly advised Ahmed not to show it to anyone else, which showed she was concerned about how it would be perceived, but was terrible advice. If Ahmed had hidden it (which he didn't), it would have been her fault, IMO.
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  #43  
Old 18 September 2015, 01:19 PM
fitz1980 fitz1980 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
If Ahmed had hidden it (which he didn't), it would have been her fault, IMO
But if he had hidden it the admins would have claimed it as evidence that it was a bomb.
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  #44  
Old 18 September 2015, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by fitz1980 View Post
But if he had hidden it the admins would have claimed it as evidence that it was a bomb.
Yes, that's why I said, in the previous sentence, that it was terrible advice.

ETA: Her telling him to hide it:
1. Was evidence that she thought people might think the device was dangerous, and
2. Was terrible advice and entirely the wrong way to handle the problems she clearly foresaw
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  #45  
Old 18 September 2015, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post

And to those who said it was reasonable for them to investigate a wired beeping object (was it beeping? I don't know): sure, it was reasonable for them to ask him what it was and to look at it. You probably shouldn't have a beeping thing (if it was beeping) in class anyway, it's a distraction. It was everything that came after that point that's a problem.
Has anyone in this thread who thought an initial investigation was warranted suggested anything else? If someone did I missed it.
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  #46  
Old 18 September 2015, 06:44 PM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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Been trying to locate the school Code of Conduct without successes so far. I would like to know what code he violated with the clock. I’m guess it is a weapons policy that is determined after the fact. The one were a hairbrush is found to be a weapon after someone did not like looks of it some reason.
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  #47  
Old 18 September 2015, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Has anyone in this thread who thought an initial investigation was warranted suggested anything else? .
No, I don't think so. But I was clarifying what I meant, in case anyone who responded that it was a good idea to investigate the device had thought I meant they'd be wrong even to look at it. There are probably a batch of things that shouldn't be in the classrooms; it wouldn't even have been necessary to wonder whether it was a bomb. Especially if it actually was beeping, which as I said would be a problem in itself, due to its being a distraction.
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  #48  
Old 18 September 2015, 09:25 PM
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The article says he showed it to the second teacher after it beeped during her class. So yes, it was beeping.

I agree with Lainie, that the engineering teacher should have kept it until after classes. In thinking about whether there was any evidence that he intended to present it as a hoax bomb, I come up with two pieces of evidence (note: I'm not saying I believe that to be his intention, just that there is some evidence that could go in that direction).

One is the clock's appearance. There are innocent reasons for it to look that way, but also possible inferences that go the other way. The second piece of evidence is that he was warned not to show it to anyone else, yet he did show it to someone else, with apparently exactly the predicted result. Depending on what exactly was said in the warning, it could be seen as a deliberately provocative act. It would have solved some problems for the engineering teacher to keep it, although I suppose it's possible that we'd be reading about a teacher confiscating a clock from a Muslim student because it looked like a bomb. But at least it could be justified under a policy of avoiding disruption.

Last edited by erwins; 18 September 2015 at 09:38 PM.
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  #49  
Old 18 September 2015, 09:34 PM
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Hint to school administrators and cops: Real Bombs don't beep.
(They repeat "I am a bomb" over and over again.)
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  #50  
Old 18 September 2015, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
Hint to school administrators and cops: Real Bombs don't beep.
(They repeat "I am a bomb" over and over again.)
"I'm a thirty-second bomb! I'm a thirty-second bomb! Twenty-nine! twenty-eight! Twenty-seven!..." It was supposed to frazzle their nerves. Maybe it did; it certainly frazzled mine.

- Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers
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  #51  
Old 19 September 2015, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Ahmed Mohamed, the Texas teen who was arrested and released with no charges after teachers thought his homemade clock resembled a bomb, has been inundated with messages of support and offers to visit the White House, the MIT astrophysics facility and the Facebook campus.
I'm actually worried about this kind of 'overcompensation culture'. In my own opinion, all that was really needed was an apology from the police officers and the school.
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  #52  
Old 19 September 2015, 04:03 AM
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Those things are not forthcoming though. I agree that it's a bit much, but it's also important to show that many people, including ones in high positions, disagree with what happened and want to give him the kind of reception he should have had.
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  #53  
Old 19 September 2015, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
I'm actually worried about this kind of 'overcompensation culture'. In my own opinion, all that was really needed was an apology from the police officers and the school.
What bad outcome are you worried about? Who gets to define/decide what's needed, and what's wrong with people giving more than is needed?

In any case, if people or groups want to do nice things for someone who's in the news, I can't imagine how we'd stop them, and I honestly don't think we should.
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  #54  
Old 19 September 2015, 12:31 PM
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A Turtle Named Mack A Turtle Named Mack is offline
 
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Icon102 Reverse Engineering Ahmed Mohamed’s Clock… and Ourselves.

I found the highest resolution photograph of the clock I could. Instantly, I was disappointed. Somewhere in all of this – there has indeed been a hoax. Ahmed Mohamed didn’t invent his own alarm clock. He didn’t even build a clock. Now, before I go on and get accused of attacking a 14 year old kid who’s already been through enough, let me explain my purpose. I don’t want to just dissect the clock. I want to dissect our reaction as a society to the situation. Part of that is the knee-jerk responses we’re all so quick to make without facts. So, before you scroll down and leave me angry comments, please continue to the end (or not – prove my point, and miss the point, entirely!)

http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/...and-ourselves/
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  #55  
Old 19 September 2015, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
So, before you scroll down and leave me angry comments, please continue to the end (or not – prove my point, and miss the point, entirely!)

http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/...and-ourselves/
I read to the end and it's a terrible, terrible article.

So what if Ahmed made his clock out of parts of an already existing clock? That doesn't mean we get to call in to question (or outright ignore) all the other statements and actions in the story and then wildly draw out other hypotheses based on nothing but assumptions.
The whole paragraph about "I’m intellectually mature enough to admit I don’t know, and to also be OK with that. I don’t feel a need to take the first exist to conclusionville" is junk because he's really, obviously reaching for a certain conclusion. He's pushing reeeeeally hard for that conclusion and pulling out every trick he can think of to ignore the overwhelming evidence which disproves it.
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  #56  
Old 19 September 2015, 03:25 PM
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The maker community hasn't been tricked and the press hasn't 'hoaxed' anyone. The reason they've embraced it as 'making a clock' is because this kind of project is a huge part of what making is all about! So, non-maker has no idea about making. Safe to ignore.
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  #57  
Old 19 September 2015, 08:50 PM
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The photo of him in the police station is heart breaking. He looked so scared and bewildered!

My thoughts on the story is that a teacher or two thought he was a smart alec and so, therefore, a trouble maker. I've seen it before. I've experienced it! For some people, a clever child (it does not say, but perhaps somebody who also knows they are clever and can, as young people can do, run away with it sometimes - I don't know if this describes him as he also seems quiet and polite) is out to be cheeky, to affront them or to cause trouble. To be a smart-ass.

I can just easily imagine then, if this is the case, that the school thought 'he's brought in something that looks like a bomb to us just so he can go "what? it's just a clock!" and laugh at us! Well, Mr Smarty Pants, we'll see about that!".

Perhaps I'm letting my own experiences cloud my perception of the teacher(s) intent because I was in a kind of similar situation. When in secondary school, not long before I refused to go in and stopped going to school, I was accused of trying to make people think I was going to kill people (note, I was not actually accused of trying to kill people) when I discovered I'd accidentally brought a blunt knife I used for sharpening crayons in my pencil case. I naively showed a friend and laughed about how it would be funny for me to get caught with such a thing. I did - in being overheard making that comment. That did not go well for me because, you see, I was a smart ass. I could not possibly have seriously not intended something. But then I could also not have possibly intended to use it - I just brought it to scare people and show off. I was often accused of trying to show off, or trying to show people up. I wonder if Ahmed Mohammad had the same problem?
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  #58  
Old 19 September 2015, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
Instantly, I was disappointed. Somewhere in all of this – there has indeed been a hoax.
Yes - the guy that wrote the article seems to believe Ahmed claimed to have "invented" a clock and therefore RACISM DOESN'T EXIST because he might have used a kit.

Thanks though, I was wondering why I was suddenly hearing some blathering about an "EXPOSE!". Now I know the source.

But it has been nice that after a few days some of the reliable sources have found a way to rationalize this as not really racism.

You know like Breitbart:

RACE-GRIFTERS UNITE: 14 YEAR-OLD AHMED MOHAMED ARRESTED OVER SUITCASE CLOCK

Sarah and Bristol Palin:

Palin Slams Obama For 'Prematurely' Inviting Ahmed Mohamed To WH

National Review:

Ahmed’s Clock in the Age of Grievance-Mongering

Bill Maher:

Maher Battles Guests on Ahmed Mohamed: Be Cautious When Young Muslims Are ‘Blowing Sh*t Up’

Nice to know Bill still hasn't met a Muslim he didn't hate and still get tons of plaudits for being a progressive hero.

Anyway, now I know I can look forward to even more Ahmed Mohameds getting arrested and probably not getting social media famous next time instead of people finally admitting anti-Islamic bigotry is a thing. For a horrible moment, I thought we might finally be growing up as a country but... nah.
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  #59  
Old 20 September 2015, 03:10 AM
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This story just made me so sad, because when I read it I immediately flashed back to my brother building a crystal radio set out of a kit he ordered from Popular Mechanics. This was back in the 60s, when a boy tinkering with a kit project or taking apart an appliance to see how it worked would have been considered the actions of a typical All-American kid, following in the footsteps of Edison or Benjamin Franklin

But instead we have an example of a teacher, who should be encouraging the curiosity and creativity of a child, wallowing in anti-intellectualism and racist paranoia. It would be nice to think that this behavior is relegated to the backwaters of Texas, but I've met a few teachers in my own school district who would probably have reacted in the same way.

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  #60  
Old 20 September 2015, 04:34 PM
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Stop the presses, Richard Dawkins has weighed in!

Richard Dawkins sparks Twitter storm with comments about arrested US Muslim schoolboy

Quote:
The ethologist posted a series of tweets about 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed and said he was "fraudulent".

Dawkins' also tweeted a link to a video suggesting the clock built by schoolboy was a fraud.

He said: "If this is true, what was his motive? Whether or not he wanted the police to arrest him, they shouldn’t have done so".

One Twitter used responded: "What has this got to do with evolutionary biology or atheism? Why are you so annoyed about this kid?"

When probed about what he thought the schoolboy's "motive" was, Mr Dawkins said: "I don't know. Possibly wanted to be arrested? Police played into his hands? Anyway, now invited to White House, crowdfunded etc".

One Twitter rebutted: "He's only 14, not some Machiavellian master-mind, what the hell's wrong with you?"
Man, they're really seizing on that "But it was from a kit, man!" line to try and turn this one around to their favor.

Still though, you'd think he'd be a lot happier about the first signs of Muslim progress since the Dark Ages.
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