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Old 11 May 2017, 01:44 PM
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Graham2001 Graham2001 is offline
 
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Yow! A radio PSA in Tucson taught listeners how to hide child porn. Then the sheriff heard

Quote:
For two years in the middle of the night, Paul Lotsof’s voice interrupted the music on CAVE 97.7 FM, the oldies country station that he owns, with what he believed was a vital public service announcement.

“In many cases, the penalty for possession of pictures is worse than the penalty for murder,” Lotsof’s PSA to his Arizona audience would say. “You should understand that your Internet provider could report you to the police if they catch you looking at a website featuring naked juveniles.”

Lotsof wasn’t telling listeners not to look at child pornography, though, but how to look at it without getting caught.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7b770409b829
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  #2  
Old 23 May 2017, 06:42 PM
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DawnStorm DawnStorm is offline
 
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No

The more you know?
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  #3  
Old 23 May 2017, 08:04 PM
overyonder overyonder is offline
 
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If you tell someone how to rob a bank, and they do it. Are you responsible?

The advice given is true for pretty much anything data you want to hide.

OY
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  #4  
Old 23 May 2017, 10:33 PM
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Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
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Bank robbing isn't the best metaphor. If you tell a nervous rapist he can get away with it if he just uses flunitrazepam and condoms, so he does, are you guilty of criminal incitement?
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  #5  
Old 23 May 2017, 10:44 PM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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(Obviously IANAL but.) If (g) you help someone plan to rob a bank by providing plans or details - and during that communication you admit you're providing the plans for that purpose - I'm 100% sure you can be arrested as an accomplice. Otherwise, people who helped plan a heist would go free based on, what, the fact that they weren't part of the onsite crew? Also it seems obvious that that's not the same as holding that person responsible for the robbery. Just their part in a robbery or attempted robbery.
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  #6  
Old 23 May 2017, 11:14 PM
overyonder overyonder is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
(Obviously IANAL but.) If (g) you help someone plan to rob a bank by providing plans or details - and during that communication you admit you're providing the plans for that purpose -
Except that here you're providing the details to the general population (hence the PSA), not to a single person. It's not a direct accomplice, as there never has been a direct person-to-person involvement. Someone used information that you provided for an illegal activity.

So if I provided a PSA to the general population about how to hide any (non-specific) type of document, and someone used it for hiding illegal material, could I be charged as an accomplice too? I'm genuinely asking here.

I'm obviously not condoning hiding or keeping illegal material here.

I've seen a large number of "safecracker" type of videos on youtube (how to bust Master locks, etc etc etc). If the material was to be used illegally...

OY
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  #7  
Old 23 May 2017, 11:35 PM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Judge

I'm just pointing out that, given that example, yes, you can be held responsible for publishing details of how to rob a bank depending on the circumstances. (Plenty of people give details about keeping secrets without saying "if you have this very specific type of illegal material, here is how to..." Plenty of people write details about robbing banks without saying, unironically, "if you plan on robbing a bank at gunpoint, do this..." Seems to make denial that much less plausible.)

I don't know the details of the case but the whole point is that he isn't accused of offering the info to the general population but to a specific criminal subset. Whether he did so or not will be decided in court, I guess. Whether other people were listening seems rather irrelevant.
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  #8  
Old 24 May 2017, 12:08 AM
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Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overyonder View Post
So if I provided a PSA to the general population about how to hide any (non-specific) type of document, and someone used it for hiding illegal material, could I be charged as an accomplice too? I'm genuinely asking here.
Ganz already made a good argument, but I'll add that you're being a lot more general than the guy in the OP was. He specifically said he was talking to people who own child porn because he doesn't want them to be caught. He said they are the real "victims," and not the children who are being exploited.

He isn't providing non-specific advice. He's very pointedly tying to help people get a way with a certain type of crime. That seems like incitment to me.
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Old 24 May 2017, 12:37 AM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Or, possibly, conspiracy or other kind of illegal abetment. (Repeat: IANAL.)
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  #10  
Old 24 May 2017, 01:33 PM
overyonder overyonder is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
Ganz already made a good argument, but I'll add that you're being a lot more general than the guy in the OP was. He specifically said he was talking to people who own child porn because he doesn't want them to be caught. He said they are the real "victims," and not the children who are being exploited.

He isn't providing non-specific advice. He's very pointedly tying to help people get a way with a certain type of crime. That seems like incitment to me.
Then, you could have a drunk driver sympathizer (call him Mr Smith) that lets people know about a road block on road XYZ, and tells every drunk patron leaving the bar: "Don't take road XYZ, there's a road block". Ultimately, the drunk driver is the one that makes the decision to drive when drunk. If that drunk drivers kills someone on road ABC, and he tells the cops "I avoided road XYZ because Mr Smith told me there was a road block", could Mr Smith then be at fault?

OY
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  #11  
Old 24 May 2017, 02:50 PM
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erwins erwins is offline
 
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It depends on what you mean by at fault.

Probably not criminally.
Maybe civil liability. It's foreseeable that helping drunk drivers avoid a roadblock will lead to additional drunk driving accidents.
Morally--I think so, but MMV. Choosing to help drunk drivers puts people at risk, including both the general public and those you are ostensibly helping.
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  #12  
Old 24 May 2017, 06:19 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
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What if you change the scenario a bit and Mr. Smith tells every patron of the bar of the road block? The road blocks are a PITA since they stop everyone and are, at least sometimes, not there to catch drunk drivers.

Besides, is Mr. Smith legally required to be qualified to judge the level of inebriation of people in a bar?

Also, it is certainly possible for a person to appear sober but still be legally drunk.

Overall, this situation seems a bit like the legality/illegality of flashing your headlights at oncoming traffic to warn them that they are approaching a speed trap. The laws seem to be all over the place (in the US) with it being legal in some places and illegal in others.
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