Are horses vicious? Connecticut supreme court to decide

[Little Pink Pill]

Originally Posted by Alarm

Now, Why don't they isolate the breed of horse, like they do with dogs?
With dogs it's not "all dogs are vicious", it's "Peetbowls har viscious!11!1"

So why not the same treatment for horses?

The majority of horse breeds were selected for characteristics that made them better suited for farm/ranch work, equine sports (hunting, jumping, racing), or pleasure riding. There really aren't any popular "fighting" breeds kept for pets like there are for dogs, though I have met a few attack ponies that were perfectly capable of defending their own.

[snapdragonfly]

May I interrupt this charmingly amusing discussion to say - oh please. Horses are NOT an inherently vicious species. Not like tigers or bears or some other species which, even if raised in captivity and petted and socialized as a cub, end up eating their owners eventually anyway. The vast majority of horses, considering the damage they most certainly COULD do, but choose not to, are quite docile and easily tamed and domesticated. There are certainly the individual animals who are pretty damn mean - like cats, or dogs, who also for the most part are gentle, but occasionally one is mean. Even very docile ones can be pushed to fight back if they are treated badly enough, though there are some who will just do was they are asked even after being whipped and still don't kick or bite, and they could do that, but don't. Horses are no more vicious overall, as a species, than dogs, even those such as pit bulls who also are accused of being vicious by some people. Having been bitten by large dogs, and never been bitten by a horse though I owned and rode them growing up, I, personally? Am more afraid of dogs than horses. That's anecdotal of course but it is my own personal data point.
But they are very big, and very strong, and people who don't respect that fact might get hurt. And you do have to show them who is boss. They have a bit of a twisted sense of humor too. But vicious? No. They don't go around attacking people on account of some instinct telling them to, and imagine the difference in the reactions between a headline saying "Bengal Tiger escapes from zoo, last seen at elementary school" and "lost horse, last seen near elementary school". Which one would worry you more if your kid was at that school, seriously.

What LPP says also is entirely true, and should be considered. Horses have indeed been bred to be useful domesticated animals for all kinds of purposes, but none of which include fighting, protection, hunting, etc. Mostly pulling loads, working, and running around, or just prancing and being all purdy and stuff. (to which purpose by the way they are often subjected to cruel and painful training methods - and still they don't turn vicious. But what they do to make them have that gait, and the breaking of the tail, those things are kind of heartbreaking.)

Shetlands can be kind of mean. I would never get my kid a Shetland pony even though they are tiny and cute. I'd get a really gentle breed even if it's bigger.

But the running commentary in this thread has been particularly top notch and funny. Please continue.

[Brad from Georgia]

The naked lady was quite attractive and actually appeared on the horse in a spread for PLAYBOY magazine back during the time of the campus streaking craze. I was walking across campus and encountered a crowd watching the PLAYBOY shoot. The horse sensed me, pushed through about five ranks of onlookers, and grabbed me by the shoulder. It hurt. A wrangler came up and twisted the beast's ear until it released me.

The riding lessons were with four others and an instructor. As one of the five riders, I was with the others as we crossed the stream. Mine was the only horse that lay down and rolled. On the second occasion, my horse stalled out at the first turn. The instructor told me to urge the horse on, but she had to go along the trail with the others. When they came back into sight at the end of the lesson, my horse turned and went back to the barn and lied as I said.

The school told me that their horses didn't like me--the second horse I rode was the one they started little kids on and I was the only person she ever misbehaved with, they told me--and refunded my money and told me to look into getting a motorcycle instead.

[crocoduck_hunter]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dave

The rhino, of course.

Only if he's standing closer to it.

[Alarm]

Originally Posted by Brad from Georgia

... pushed through about five ranks of onlookers,

Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter

Only if he's standing closer to it.

But apparently, not very close...
and probably behind a wall of some sort would be safer.

[thorny locust]

Originally Posted by Brad from Georgia

The riding lessons were with four others and an instructor. As one of the five riders, I was with the others as we crossed the stream. Mine was the only horse that lay down and rolled. On the second occasion, my horse stalled out at the first turn. The instructor told me to urge the horse on, but she had to go along the trail with the others. When they came back into sight at the end of the lesson, my horse turned and went back to the barn and lied as I said.

Still not good practice, IMO. You should have been inside a riding ring until you had at least a little experience. Trail rides are not for total novices. The situation you wound up in is one of the reasons: if one horse insisted on going ahead while one insisted on staying, and neither rider could control the horse, the instructor couldn't help, or even keep an eye on, both of you. And do you mean that the instructor simply rode off with the others even though the others were in control of their horses, leaving you alone in the open with a horse that you obviously couldn't control? That was extremely risky behavior.

[Brad from Georgia]

Originally Posted by thorny locust

Still not good practice, IMO. You should have been inside a riding ring until you had at least a little experience. Trail rides are not for total novices. The situation you wound up in is one of the reasons: if one horse insisted on going ahead while one insisted on staying, and neither rider could control the horse, the instructor couldn't help, or even keep an eye on, both of you. And do you mean that the instructor simply rode off with the others even though the others were in control of their horses, leaving you alone in the open with a horse that you obviously couldn't control? That was extremely risky behavior.

I agree. That's why I dropped the lessons and stopped dating the girl who loved horses and dragged me into this confrontation with the creatures.

[thorny locust]

Just think: who knows what would have happened if she'd only known a better riding stable?

(though I suspect there was more to it than that.)

[GenYus234]

The horses would have pretended to like Brad until they could get him alone?

[thorny locust]

I do find very interesting this strange power of Brad's to not only anger riding stable horses, but to draw angry horses to him across a crowd. If I were writing a book in which these things happened to a character, it would definitely mean something; but I'm not sure what.

Brad, do members of other species attack you, or only horses?

[Lainie]

Squirrels hate Brad.

[GenYus234]

Can you blame them after the hula hoop catastrophe?

[thorny locust]

Oooookay, I must have missed that one . . .

[GenYus234]

It is a Noodle Incident (NSFP).

[Brad from Georgia]

Actually, for the most part I get along OK with squirrels--have rescued a few of them. One squirrel tormented me in college, though.

No, horses and assorted horseoids (ponies, burros, mules) are my bete noir. I am afraid of them (with good cause, I think), and people have told me that's why they seem out to get me. What surprises me is that so many people have assured me that THEIR horse is kind and gentle and will love me, and then the critters snort, try to bite or kick me, or otherwise show their hatred. That's happened five or six times. Once when I was out walking Tripper, a burro came up and yelled at me, then turned and kicked at his fence. Since then I pass on the far side of the street when I'm near his enclosure.

[RichardM]

Note to self: if Brad comes to Dallas and you are going to entertain him, do not take him to the Mesquite Rodeo. You are liable to end up with a horse in your lap.

[Winged Monkey]

Originally Posted by Gutter Monkey

So the incident occurred 7 years ago and the child's father has been chasing this through three different courts since then. It's starting to sound to me that this was a last gasp legal maneuver to get the result which the first court denied him.

'That sounds about right. My vaguely remembered understanding of animal attack law from lawschool and Insurance Broker licensing is that liability for animals is split between "wild" and "domestic" animals.

Domestic animals, including dogs, have what was formerly known as the "free bite" rule, meaning that the owner needs to know from past action that an animal has a vicious temperament. If you know that your horse bites people, because it's done it in the past you're strictly liable for the damage and the victim's contributory actions don't matter.

If the animal hasn't hurt anyone before (or otherwise shown an abnormal propensity for harming folks) the owner can protect themselves by having not been negligent (horse is in a stall, dog is on a leash).

Now with wild animals - wolves, cougars, tigers, bears etc - one is strictly liable always, they're deemed inherently vicious. Doesn't matter if you basically offered little Timmy up as a tiger treat, the tiger's owner has to pay (well unless this was some sort of criminal feed Timmy to the Tiger mob hit) even if they took reasonable precautions to prevent the Tiger from eating people.

Thus reclassifying horses as inherently vicious (akin to tigers) seems very unlikely. Very, very unlikely.

-Winged Monkey

[DawnStorm]

The Connecticut Supreme Court has upheld the lower court's decision.
Story here.

[thorny locust]

Good grief.

Sounds like the state legislature might fix it, though.

[Little Pink Pill]

I hope so. I do think it's true that horses are inherently dangerous: a big prey animal acting on fight or flight intincts can easily hurt you either on accident or on purpose. As herd animals they need to be taught good ground manners and see humans as leaders and not subordinates. But "inherently vicious" is just laughable.