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  #41  
Old 09 September 2014, 02:48 PM
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"I don't expect them to admit it," he said. "Why would they? There's no smoking gun. It's just a philosophy. But when enough people believe in the philosophy, it becomes more than that."
This explains so much.
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  #42  
Old 09 September 2014, 04:06 PM
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The farmed raised coyotes came from Ohio. It's payback for all those Pennsylvania black bears you keep sending our way.
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  #43  
Old 09 September 2014, 04:38 PM
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First I heard that the word "philosophy" means "persistent rumor."

What I can't figure out is why these people are so sure that a highly intelligent and highly adaptable species, perfectly capable of travelling miles in a single night, and known to disperse as far as 100 miles from birth location in a single generation, couldn't possibly have moved on its own into areas that had a huge gap in their predator population.

They want to think this was human-caused? Fine. But it was human-caused in the sense that the humans wiped out the wolves and the cougars. Coyote's got plenty brains enough to figure out where there's lots of dinner in unclaimed territory.
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  #44  
Old 09 September 2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
Research has shown that if you start a sentence with "research has shown", more people will believe you.
The funny thing is that this is likely entirely true.
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  #45  
Old 09 September 2014, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
...that a highly intelligent and highly adaptable species, perfectly capable of travelling miles in a single night, and known to disperse as far as 100 miles from birth location in a single generation, couldn't possibly have moved on its own into areas that had a huge gap in their predator population.

...Coyote's got plenty brains enough to figure out where there's lots of dinner in unclaimed territory.
For a while during my university days in the late '80s, I tracked coyotes in our local national park for the zoology department. I learned a lot about coyotes then. And I then took a course at university that involved ecological management, and we were shown how to set up a small experiment to demonstrate influences on populations of various animals (mostly two types of animals, one predator and one prey). As we ran simulations - in the days when computers were very challenging to get the simulation parameters correct - man-induced population reductions were superb at almost eradicating any targeted population (as we know all too well). But when the animals can adapt quickly, like both deer and coyotes, the resultant impact on breeding populations is immense.

Mostly due to abundance of food (due to larger rodent populations in farmlands), instead of a small litter every second year, of which 2/3 will live to adulthood, you get large litters every year of which all will live to adulthood. You have females in healthy breeding condition perhaps a season ahead of where she would have been in "normal" times.

So, as thorny locust correctly pointed out, coyotes can easily move in and adapt. However, those that were still in the area, and those that migrate in, will have near ideal breeding conditions, creating larger populations of coyotes. And, these larger populations can be a threat to people if not managed correctly.
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  #46  
Old 09 September 2014, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
these larger populations can be a threat to people if not managed correctly.
Do you mean directly? While I'm sure it's at least theoretically possible, I haven't heard of coyote attacks on humans; though I might have just missed something.

Or do you mean indirectly, as in attacking and eating livestock, cats and dogs, etc.? That can certainly happen (though some people seem to think that if anything's doing this, it must be coyote, when it might actually be the neighbor's dog.)

-- I just googled this and came up with the following:

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals...es_people.html

Quote:
Coyote attacks on people are very rare. More people are killed by errant golf balls and flying champagne corks each year than are bitten by coyotes. [. . . ] There have only been two recorded incidences in the United States and Canada of humans being killed by coyotes.
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  #47  
Old 09 September 2014, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Coyote's got plenty brains enough to figure out where there's lots of dinner in unclaimed territory.
Doesn't even take brains for that - 'follow the food source' is about as basic as it gets. Even plants grow toward the sunshine
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  #48  
Old 09 September 2014, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Do you mean directly? While I'm sure it's at least theoretically possible, I haven't heard of coyote attacks on humans; though I might have just missed something.

Or do you mean indirectly, as in attacking and eating livestock, cats and dogs, etc.?
Both.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...reton-1.779304

This was big news a couple of years ago (happened not too far from my Dad's home town). Cape Breton has seen a disturbing increase in coyote attacks on humans and animals with several people injured.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...on_humans.html

Quote:
According to Park officials there have been between six to 10 incidents at the Cape Breton park involving coyotes and humans since last fall.
When I was tracking coyotes in the '80s, we were told that they would not kill, but they could become seemingly aggressive, especially if we unknowingly trod near their lairs.

I never witnessed anything than us tracking a coyote who was tracking us.
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  #49  
Old 09 September 2014, 08:45 PM
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I have heard that when coyotes cross breed with dogs, they lose their fear of humans and hence become more prone to attack. But I think this may be something I heard from a friend of a friend.
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  #50  
Old 09 September 2014, 09:00 PM
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I've heard the same thing about dog-wolf hybrids. And it was from the same source, too!
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  #51  
Old 09 September 2014, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
This was big news a couple of years ago (happened not too far from my Dad's home town).
I think that's one of the two cases in my earlier link -- while mine doesn't name the person or give her profession or a specific location, her age, the general area, and the year of the story all match.

It does seem that hazing attacks on coyote, and in some cases occasional shooting, may be needed to keep them from making the mistake of coming to think that humans aren't dangerous.

Around here there are people who hunt them and they are also sometimes trapped; so that might be keeping them cautious. I've heard someone say that a coyote stood its ground briefly on seeing him (it occurs to me to wonder if there were cubs in the area); but I haven't heard of them actually attacking humans. I hear them quite often; but I almost never see one, and, the one time I did, it was heading elsewhere; in a medium trot, not at a panic run, but I wasn't very close.

I keep the cats and dog in at night, though. And, given a choice, I would not approach a coyote -- though I suspect that approaching slowly would be safer than running, as long as they were able to retreat.
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