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Old 12 March 2013, 05:13 PM
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Florida 32 Arrested in Miramar Beach After House Party Bust

Dozens of spring breakers in south Walton County spent the night in jail Monday. Deputies caught them underage drinking, but they also allegedly destroyed the house where they were staying.

Hands and feet shackled, these spring breakers were headed to the Walton County jail Monday night, busted for underage drinking.


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  #2  
Old 12 March 2013, 06:02 PM
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Shackled?! Are you NFBSKing kidding me? Do the cops just enjoy abusing their authority? The "crime" of drinking under the age of 21 is a complete joke; if it absolutely must be enforced, then break up the party and give a citation or notice to appear, don't put them through the system and throw them in jail, or shackle people together like chattel. As to destruction of the house; if it were public property I could see a reason for the police to be upset. And if no one had permission to be in the house, then they were trespassing. But if it's private property and they had permission to be there, then any destruction is a matter for the homeowner, not the cops. I do find it telling that the video noted it was a "multi-million dollar house" as if that's supposed to be important.
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Old 12 March 2013, 06:29 PM
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Sounds to me like it was more than underage drinking. It sounds like a pretty wild party. Even if there were no arrests, the police would likely come out and break up a party like that.

It does not say who owned the house, whether it was a rental, or the owners knew that there was a party at their house.

And it may have been that the shackles were to keep them from running off while they were gathering up the rest.
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Old 12 March 2013, 06:49 PM
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I'm not arguing that police shouldn't break up a wild party. But there are other ways to do it without shackling people or taking hordes of them to jail for non-violent offenses.
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Old 12 March 2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
I'm not arguing that police shouldn't break up a wild party. But there are other ways to do it without shackling people or taking hordes of them to jail for non-violent offenses.
Yeah it's not like anything bad could happen by turning loose a bunch of drunk college kids....
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Old 13 March 2013, 01:37 AM
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My boss was talking about this at work today. She lives just a few blocks from that house.
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  #7  
Old 13 March 2013, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
Shackled?! Are you NFBSKing kidding me? Do the cops just enjoy abusing their authority?
In many mass arrest situations, there are not enough handcuffs, so the police use zip ties to "handcuff" people by interlocking two or more zip ties. I would bet that the "shackles" in this case are makeshift "shackles" using several zip ties. Having many people in custody at once to deal with, they probably couldn't rely on people who just had their hands zip tied not running away/sneaking off.

Whether they should have been arrested vs. cited and released is a separate issue, which really depends on the law on underage drinking in the jurisdiction what other charges there were, and whether they were so drunk that they could not safely be left on their own.
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Old 13 March 2013, 02:17 AM
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They are real shackles in the video, but the men shown don't seem to be too upset by being put in them.
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Old 13 March 2013, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
Shackled?! Are you NFBSKing kidding me? Do the cops just enjoy abusing their authority?
Would you feel this way if the young men had merely been handcuffed? The videos shows the "shackles" that they were wearing, and they looked like nothing more than handcuffs on a longer chain. Several of the fellows appearing in the video were smiling, waving, or giving a thumbs up while wearing the "chains".
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Old 13 March 2013, 03:28 AM
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Ah--I missed the video.

I'd also note that the use of shackles to me is treating someone like a prisoner, not "chattel."
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  #11  
Old 13 March 2013, 04:05 AM
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Would you feel this way if the young men had merely been handcuffed?
Yes. I see no reason to handcuff someone unless they are being violent or resisting arrest. And I question the point of even arresting someone for underage drinking.

In my admittedly limited experience being at house parties that were broken up by cops (both high school and college parties, often with the owners of the house not present) no one was ever arrested for underage drinking. I recall one party where someone was arrested for pot, but he was not taken to jail or handcuffed, because the cops just don't do that for a small amount of drugs. At college parties the cops would tell everyone to leave the house immediately if we did not live there. Occasionally they gave sobriety tests before allowing people to drive away, but most of the time we were just told to leave. They didn't check IDs; even at our high school prom party no one was arrested. The point is to break up the party, not to give folks a criminal record for drinking.

The police captain who said "There's a reason they can't drink alcohol under the age of 21, they don't make sound decisions," is just further proof to me that these are cops having a power trip.
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  #12  
Old 13 March 2013, 04:51 AM
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If they're drunk, underage, scared, and likely to run away, they're likely to hurt themselves if their hands are bound. Running with your hands bound is really difficult even when sober, so if it was to protect them from themselves, it could be justified - but it would really depend on how drunk or scared these kids were.

FWIW, "chattel" is defined as "movable personal property". Shackles on people is more akin to slavery - "chattel" is typically used to refer to a person's belongings - their clothing, furniture, appliances, tools, vehicles - in opposition to "immovable property" like a house or land.
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Old 13 March 2013, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero_Mike View Post
FWIW, "chattel" is defined as "movable personal property". Shackles on people is more akin to slavery - "chattel" is typically used to refer to a person's belongings - their clothing, furniture, appliances, tools, vehicles - in opposition to "immovable property" like a house or land.
In American History classes, we were always taught that slaves were treated like chattel - that's the word they used. If differentiates the American style of slavery from debt slavery or other types of slavery or people are forced to work but are not legally owned by other people.

So, in the U.S., if you are treating someone like a slave, then you are treating them like chattel.
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  #14  
Old 13 March 2013, 06:07 AM
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"Chattel", with respect to slavery, meant that the slave could be bought or sold like any other possession. In any case, "chattel" is a word used almost daily in the world of real-estate, but not many of us discuss slavery every day...
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  #15  
Old 13 March 2013, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
Yes. I see no reason to handcuff someone unless they are being violent or resisting arrest...
I have to disagree with that position. I think that it is OK for the police to handcuff a suspect in situations where, in the judgement of the officer, it is likely that they will become violent or will resist arrest.

It is not like the handcuffs are permanent or debilitating. They are a prudent restraint that can be easily removed when it is clear that the suspect in question does not pose an immediate threat.
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  #16  
Old 13 March 2013, 12:58 PM
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I am pretty sure therule for police is that a person under arrest is handcuffed (if possible) until they are released or booked (and only then if safe, otherwise, until they are in a cell)
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  #17  
Old 13 March 2013, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
Yes. I see no reason to handcuff someone unless they are being violent or resisting arrest.
Doesn't running away qualify as resisting arrest?

The article strongly implies that at least some of the people concerned were arrested as they tried to escape out the back door.
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  #18  
Old 13 March 2013, 05:25 PM
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Regulations here require all people who are arrested to be handcuffed. I had a warrant for a traffic ticket that I didn't know about. They came to my work and arrested me. Yes, with handcuffs.
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  #19  
Old 13 March 2013, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
"There's a reason they can't drink alcohol under the age of 21, they don't make sound decisions," is just further proof to me that these are cops having a power trip.
This comment by the cops is a factual statement. I fail to see why it's evidence of them being on a power trip.
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  #20  
Old 13 March 2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvanz View Post
This comment by the cops is a factual statement. I fail to see why it's evidence of them being on a power trip.
I thought anyone who drinks to excess shows they can't make sound decisions, whether they are 21 or not.

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