snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Moot Court

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12 September 2016, 08:36 PM
TallGeekyGirl's Avatar
TallGeekyGirl TallGeekyGirl is online now
 
Join Date: 31 December 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,857
Default Judge to woman in rape case: 'Why couldn't you just keep your knees together?'

Quote:
According to records of the trial, Camp asked her why she didn't "skew her pelvis" or push her bottom into the sink to avoid penetration. He openly wondered, "Why couldn't you just keep your knees together?"
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/12/world/...rnd/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12 September 2016, 08:49 PM
St. Alia St. Alia is offline
 
Join Date: 06 October 2010
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 816
Default

Quote:
On the subject of sex in general, and sex with young women in particular, he said, "Young wom[e]n want to have sex, particularly if they're drunk."
In a different part of the trial, he said "Some sex and pain sometimes go together...that's not necessarily a bad thing."
Camp, 64, ultimately acquitted the man charged with the crime, and then told him:
"I want you to tell your friends, your male friends, that they have to be far more gentle with women. They have to be far more patient. And they have to be very careful. To protect themselves, they have to be very careful."
I'm concerned about the women in the judge's past. Exactly how many women has he raped if this is his mentality about consent?

What a horrifying person.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12 September 2016, 08:55 PM
erwins's Avatar
erwins erwins is offline
 
Join Date: 04 April 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,457
Default

The good news is that he seems to be getting fired. I don't know how the process works in Canada, but he is currently trying to argue for keeping his job, but not hearing criminal cases, or something like that, after actions have been taken to remove him as a judge. I'll see if I can find a cite later.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12 September 2016, 09:04 PM
quink quink is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2005
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 3,193
Default

They're just wrapping up the inquiry on this now. Apparently he's very sorry and didn't know about the history of sex assault law in Canada

It's chilling to know that there are still people in power who think this way. It's more chilling that it's taken two years to reach the point where he could be removed, and that he managed to move from provincial to federal court in that time. Even if he's learned his lesson and isn't a bad person, I'll be disgusted if this man is allowed to judge anything more than a cactus contest in the future. His lawyer says it was lack of education and ignorance rather than maliciousness. What else might he be ignorant about when he's making judgements?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12 September 2016, 09:09 PM
overyonder overyonder is offline
 
Join Date: 03 March 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quink View Post
Apparently he's very sorry and didn't know about the history of sex assault law in Canada
He's also not originally from Canada, but South Africa.

OY
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12 September 2016, 09:12 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 7,993
Default

And the problem is, as St. Alia pointed out, not only with his being a judge, and/or not knowing specifically Canadian law (though both of those certainly make it worse.)

How many people have we still got running around loose who think it can't possibly ever be rape because all a woman has to do is keep her knees together?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12 September 2016, 09:17 PM
quink quink is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2005
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 3,193
Default

Did they mention the part where he kept accidentally calling the complainant 'the accused', including in his apology a few days ago?

(to be fair, I'm sure the recent one was a slip of the tongue, but still...)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12 September 2016, 09:42 PM
Dr. Dave Dr. Dave is offline
 
Join Date: 28 June 2005
Location: Montgomery County, MD
Posts: 5,231
Icon204

Quote:
Originally Posted by quink View Post
His lawyer says it was lack of education and ignorance rather than maliciousness.
How is this a good defense?

Don't throw him off the bench; he is not hateful toward women, just ignorant and unqualified to be a judge."

Also, as others have alluded to, this is not some obscure technical distinction between second degree and third degree something or another. He told a a rape victim she should have scooted her butt into the sink.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12 September 2016, 10:03 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 24,512
Default

It is a defense against removing Camp as a judge entirely. The claim is that Camp is ignorant of Canadian criminal law, not all Canadian law. So theoretically Camp could handle civil cases just fine.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12 September 2016, 10:09 PM
quink quink is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2005
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 3,193
Default

If you're interested in following along, @markusoff (Jason Markusoff, a local Maclean's reporter) is live tweeting the hearing right now. I'll be interested to see the full article when it comes out.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12 September 2016, 10:45 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 73,502
Default

Quote:
The South African-born judge said he didn't receive training on sex assault cases. In his legal career, he focused mostly on contract and bankruptcy cases, he said.
"My colleagues knew my knowledge of Canadian law was very minimal. It was non-existent," he said at the hearing Friday. "Please remember I wasn't in this country through the 1960s, '70s and '80s."
How did he ever get to be a judge?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 13 September 2016, 01:20 PM
Alarm's Avatar
Alarm Alarm is offline
 
Join Date: 26 May 2011
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 5,150
Default

I'm more concerned about why a "contract and bankruptcy" judge would think he's qualified to hear a rape case and not recuse himself from hearing it.

That speaks volumes about his character, I think. "I haven't done this before, but how hard can it be, amirite? It's not like anyone will suffer if I get it wrong."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 13 September 2016, 01:26 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 73,502
Default

He said his knowledge of Canadian law was minimal. I don't see how he was qualified to handle any case in any court.

And was there any reason to believe he'd only have to hear contract and bankruptcy cases in that court?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 14 September 2016, 06:44 AM
Don Enrico's Avatar
Don Enrico Don Enrico is offline
 
Join Date: 05 October 2004
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 7,391
Default

I once contemplated immigration to Canada, and went as far as checking the Immigration Office web site. It told me quite clearly that as a Germany trained lawyer, I would have no chance to get a resident permit.

I wonder how this guy got a different answer apparently, and a job as a judge on top?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 14 September 2016, 03:15 PM
Seaboe Muffinchucker's Avatar
Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
Join Date: 30 June 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,523
Glasses

Because South Africa used to be part of the British Empire, and Canada still is (sort of).

Seaboe
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 14 September 2016, 03:18 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8,401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Enrico View Post
I once contemplated immigration to Canada, and went as far as checking the Immigration Office web site. It told me quite clearly that as a Germany trained lawyer, I would have no chance to get a resident permit.

I wonder how this guy got a different answer apparently, and a job as a judge on top?
I've worked with people who have immigrated here from various parts of Europe including the Netherlands, Italy and Switzerland. I wonder why immigration from Germany, particularly an educated professional, would be discouraged. That doesn't seem fair to me.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 15 September 2016, 06:53 AM
Don Enrico's Avatar
Don Enrico Don Enrico is offline
 
Join Date: 05 October 2004
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 7,391
Default

From what I understand, Canada encourages immigration of professions they need. Had I been a baker or a joiner, I would probably have been welcomed.

Lawyer probably is a profession that is already common in Canada. Plus, all other professionals - scientists, economists, linguists, whatever - can apply most, if not all of their training and knowledge in any country. Lawyers, on the other hand, are trained in their country's national law, and have to be re-trained for different legal systems.

Additionally, I couldn't claim any knowledgee of French.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 15 September 2016, 10:31 PM
htonl's Avatar
htonl htonl is offline
 
Join Date: 20 July 2006
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 1,637
Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
Because South Africa used to be part of the British Empire, and Canada still is (sort of).
And, to expand on this, because former British colonies have a shared legal history and tradition, with the English common law as a basis, and very similar legal procedures. Courts in Commonwealth countries still quite frequently cite decisions from the courts of other Commonwealth countries as persuasive authority. (South Africa is a little weird though because we also have an admixture of pre-Napoleonic Dutch civil law along with the English common law.)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 15 September 2016, 10:39 PM
E. Q. Taft's Avatar
E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
Join Date: 30 July 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 13,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
How many people have we still got running around loose who think it can't possibly ever be rape because all a woman has to do is keep her knees together?
Well, it might still be rape, but not legitimate rape....

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 19 September 2016, 03:05 PM
Sooeygun Sooeygun is offline
 
Join Date: 30 May 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
How did he ever get to be a judge?
Appointed by the Harper govt.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2612649/lo...tment-process/

"Camp was among 45 people appointed to the courts by the outgoing Conservative government over a two month span before the federal election in 2015— the most in more than a generation."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Judge Allows Warrantless Evidence in Denver-Area Terror Case Psihala War, What Is It Good For? 0 20 November 2015 06:45 PM
Hospital rape case widens A Turtle Named Mack Police Blotter 0 09 December 2014 12:35 AM
Judge finds 'flamboyantly' gay man couldn't have raped his female roommate snopes Moot Court 6 19 January 2014 12:58 AM
Prison for man in 'telepathic rape' case snopes Police Blotter 0 18 May 2013 08:19 AM
Vegas Woman Who Couldn’t Stop Growing Dies At 34 A Turtle Named Mack The Doctor Is In 4 18 January 2013 08:55 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.