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  #21  
Old 02 February 2015, 03:48 PM
Elkhound Elkhound is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I think so, too -- for one thing, the grids usually extend beyond the cities.
Exactly; if you fly over rural areas in the Midwest--particularly in the area between the Ohio River and the Great Lakes--you'll see how the fields and rural roads are laid out on a grid.
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  #22  
Old 02 February 2015, 03:54 PM
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When I used to visit cousins in the thumb of Michigan in the 1970s, curved roads were unusual, because most of the roads still followed section and township lines. I don't know if that's changed since then.
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  #23  
Old 02 February 2015, 03:55 PM
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Heck, go west of the Mississippi and the states are laid out on a grid.
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  #24  
Old 02 February 2015, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
When I used to visit cousins in the thumb of Michigan in the 1970s, curved roads were unusual, because most of the roads still followed section and township lines. I don't know if that's changed since then.
We still have some of those roads here. When my father excitedly told me that we were driving down the very same road my however many greats grandfather drove down, my comment of, "Well, you think they'd have paved it by now" was not appreciated by anyone except my mother.

(Then he made us get out and look for relative's gravestones. Unfortunately the name we were looking for was Smith.)

Anyway, they are still around, and gravel, though well tended.
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  #25  
Old 03 March 2015, 04:59 AM
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The point of jaywalking laws wasn’t to keep pedestrians safe: it was to keep the streets clear so that cars could go faster than walking pace. It was the first step in the vast rebuilding of cities, laws, and social norms that actually made the car an effective tool for getting around.
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  #26  
Old 04 April 2015, 10:46 PM
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I look at those old clips, and think to myself that the smell of horse dung must have been pretty strong.

Probably lots of flies as well.
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  #27  
Old 04 April 2015, 11:06 PM
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People who were used to it probably didn't notice the smell of the horse dung any more than most people now notice the smell of car exhaust. Which, to my nose, smells worse.

Admittedly, there are other sanitary considerations involved with horse dung. Unlike car exhaust, it makes excellent compost if properly handled; but it needs to be hauled out of the streets, while car exhaust seems to just dissipate into the air -- though I don't suppose it's great for the lungs, and enough of it causes other problems.
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  #28  
Old 05 April 2015, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
People who were used to it probably didn't notice the smell of the horse dung any more than most people now notice the smell of car exhaust. Which, to my nose, smells worse.

Admittedly, there are other sanitary considerations involved with horse dung. Unlike car exhaust, it makes excellent compost if properly handled; but it needs to be hauled out of the streets, while car exhaust seems to just dissipate into the air -- though I don't suppose it's great for the lungs, and enough of it causes other problems.
I am with you. I also don't think horse dung has the long term problems car exhaust has.
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  #29  
Old 05 April 2015, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dasla View Post
I am with you. I also don't think horse dung has the long term problems car exhaust has.
I would think dung has pretty significant long term effects. Besides breeding flies, imagine what happens every time you get a hard rain and all that organic matter is flushed into the local river. No fish in the river downstream of the city due to the algae bloom caused by all the nitrogen and other nutrients in the dung.
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  #30  
Old 05 April 2015, 06:06 PM
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Theoretically, you could have enough street cleaners to keep the dung cleaned up and properly composted. The value of the compost might even pay for the cleaning and the composting process.

In practice, I doubt that's what usually happened; except maybe in areas poor enough that the value of the fertilizer encouraged significant numbers of people to collect the stuff voluntarily.
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  #31  
Old 05 April 2015, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latiam View Post
We still have some of those roads here. When my father excitedly told me that we were driving down the very same road my however many greats grandfather drove down, my comment of, "Well, you think they'd have paved it by now" was not appreciated by anyone except my mother.

(Then he made us get out and look for relative's gravestones. Unfortunately the name we were looking for was Smith.)

Anyway, they are still around, and gravel, though well tended.
There are still very old roads in Ohio and other parts of the US, too,, some of them built along section and township lines, others originally built along the course of trails used by natives and later by settlers. It was just that in the Thumb, they hadn't built many additional roads beyond the ones that followed section/township lines. Some of the roads we drove to relatives' houses were still dirt 30-40 years ago; IDK about now.
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  #32  
Old 05 April 2015, 10:03 PM
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Cities and roads on grids go practically back to the beginning of civilization. Even some pre-Columbian American civilizations had grids.
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  #33  
Old 06 April 2015, 12:53 PM
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Thanks for that data point, Ganz, but to be clear, my earlier post explaining the origin of the grid in the thumb of Michigan was not intended to suggest that grids were created by white folks in North America in the late 18th/early 17th century.
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  #34  
Old 06 April 2015, 01:23 PM
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Yes, I didn't mean to contradict anyone or anything like that. I thought it was worth mentioning that they are an ancient invention because of earlier conversation in the thread.
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  #35  
Old 09 April 2015, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
People who were used to it probably didn't notice the smell of the horse dung any more than most people now notice the smell of car exhaust. Which, to my nose, smells worse.
Someone in my neighborhood has a 1960s Studebaker. The smell of that car's exhaust makes me thankful for modern emissions requirements. I imagine people 50 years ago were used to it, but I couldn't imagine living in a city where every car smelled like that.
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  #36  
Old 09 April 2015, 11:00 PM
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It might be out of tune. Modern mechanics don't have much experience with carb-you-rettors, and don't quite know what to do whith them when confronted.
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  #37  
Old 10 April 2015, 07:47 AM
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I remember the days when standing next to a busy road could make you feel quite ill, too. It was as recent as the 1980s. It couldn't have been just badly-tuned cars... unleaded petrol and catalytic converters made a big difference!
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  #38  
Old 10 April 2015, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
unleaded petrol and catalytic converters made a big difference!
True, it's not as bad as it was. However, even in relatively small towns, I often get a blast in the face of somebody's exhaust while, for instance, crossing a parking lot; and it surely still stinks. If I see it coming, I'll hold my breath. If I don't see it coming, I'll wish I had held my breath. But I'm sure I'm getting a more diluted version in my lungs just from being in a place with even moderate traffic.
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