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  #61  
Old 05 December 2015, 04:06 PM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
God isn't fixing it because not enough people have asked Him to. He is a loving god who cares for all of his people unless some people in the same human-defined geopolitical region have done something or not enough people in that region have done something.
There is a big difference between praying for the victims and praying for gods help to stop the violence. The later is not going to help and the prior might give some comfort to the victims which might be need now. It is not going to hurt a to take a few days to get around to working on the violence since it is going to take quite a while for a fix even if it does happen.
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  #62  
Old 05 December 2015, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TallGeekyGirl View Post
I wonder how much trouble he'll get in for doing that. A landlord can't generally enter a rental unit like that and usually can't let a bunch of random people into a unit. In addition, I would have thought that the apartment was considered part of a crime scene and the police would not like a bunch of yahoos wandering about. Basically nothing in the apartment can be used as evidence at this point?
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  #63  
Old 05 December 2015, 04:39 PM
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I didn't get that impression from other news stories. The FBI is now the lead agency investigating the shooting, so the what the police might want isn't relevant. They had also released the unit back to the landlord after they considered the scene processed.

I won't address whether the landlord had a right to invite the press into the unit, but as far as the FBI was concerned, they were done with it.

~Psihala
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  #64  
Old 05 December 2015, 04:45 PM
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I think what he did was wildly inappropriate, but I doubt it was illegal. The tenants are dead, and no one inherits a lease. The apartment is his property, and I would think he could come and go as he wants -- how else would he get it ready to re-rent?

The contents belong to the estates. Maybe the families could take action against him for allowing the media to photograph/record them.
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  #65  
Old 05 December 2015, 05:05 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I think what he did was wildly inappropriate, but I doubt it was illegal. The tenants are dead, and no one inherits a lease. The apartment is his property, and I would think he could come and go as he wants -- how else would he get it ready to re-rent?

The contents belong to the estates. Maybe the families could take action against him for allowing the media to photograph/record them.
In most places a landlord can't "come and go as he wants" and the lease would be part of the estate (I would think). Indeed the landlord may still be charging the estate rent since until someone actually cancels the lease it may still be binding even if the renters are dead.

I know my dad's current lease is binding on his estate even if he dies. Until the estate cancels the lease the estate has to keep paying the rent. Death does not automatically stop most legal agreements, including leases. A particular legal agreement might have a death clause but I don't think that is particularly standard in legalese. Mortgages and car leases aren't affected by death and I would think apartment rental agreements would be similar.
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  #66  
Old 05 December 2015, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singing in the Drizzle View Post
There is a big difference between praying for the victims and praying for gods help to stop the violence. The later is not going to help and the prior might give some comfort to the victims which might be need now. It is not going to hurt a to take a few days to get around to working on the violence since it is going to take quite a while for a fix even if it does happen.
The problem is that all too often, prayers are the only thing offered, followed by ignoring or outright blocking attempts to do anything that might prevent future violence.
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  #67  
Old 05 December 2015, 05:41 PM
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Is Sandy Hook couldn't bring about a change of heart - instead it brought deniers and it brought out people wanting to arm school teachers - something like this certainly isn't going to do it. Unfortunately .
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  #68  
Old 05 December 2015, 06:04 PM
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Its a tough problem to solve, which is the first truth that we need to all agree to.

The second truth is that, this country is truly unique in this problem and as a result it will require a unique solution. Pointing to any other country as an example of the solution is just wasting time.

I think we need throw away the term gun control. Because every time this happens, there is a hue and cry of voices that basically amount to "we need the gun control, after the last massacre I said we needed the gun control and this happened because we didn't gun control". Which is nonsense. Gun control is a collection of a whole lot of ideas, some of them would definitely help, some would make it worse.

Gun control alone wouldn't fix the problem or even make a dent in it anytime soon unless we're talking rounding up all the guns currently in the country. I hope I don't need to explain why that would be a bad idea.

The third truth, nobody has a solution at this time. We will never get to a solution as long as time is spent pretending we have one at the NRA or Republicans or gun owners or whoever is stopping it from being implemented.

It make me sick every time a tragedy like this occurs, but it makes me sicker to see people stand on top of the pile of bodies and act like they somehow had a solution that could have stopped this. If anyone did, I sure has heck never head it.
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  #69  
Old 05 December 2015, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
In most places a landlord can't "come and go as he wants" and the lease would be part of the estate (I would think).
I know the landlord can't come and go as he pleases in an occupied apartment. I was thinking of the apartment as vacant/unrented, since the (presumed) lessees are dead. But you may be right about the estate having some rights.
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  #70  
Old 05 December 2015, 06:09 PM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
The problem is that all too often, prayers are the only thing offered, followed by ignoring or outright blocking attempts to do anything that might prevent future violence.
I agree with you, but the prayers I read that were offered were not to have god stop the violence but rather for the victims.

I do think that we should move to close the gaps and loopholes that make get a gun easy, but I do not think an out right band on them will do any good in the long run.
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  #71  
Old 05 December 2015, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post

It make me sick every time a tragedy like this occurs, but it makes me sicker to see people stand on top of the pile of bodies and act like they somehow had a solution that could have stopped this. If anyone did, I sure has heck never head it.
Gun control won't end gun violence and anyone who thinks it would isn't looking carefully enough at countries that aren't as trigger happy as the US. Even with that I'd really like to know why assault rifles need to be purchased by ordinary men and women in any country. If gun control, at the very least, kept those kinds of weapons off the streets it would accomplish something.
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  #72  
Old 05 December 2015, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
The FBI has officially declared this as an act of Terrorism.
I do wonder what definition of terrorism the FBI uses. I'm just curious. Because as of right now, it seems incredibly nebulous. The shootings in San Bernardino are considered terrorism, but Dylan Roof shooting up a Black church in the name of White Supremacy isn't terrorism. So what are the parameters used to determine these things? I'll guess motive comes into play--obviously they'd use different terminology if said couple shot up a place because the voices in their head said so--but if we define it on the basis of the shooter's ideology...haven't most of these shootings been about one ideology or another? Which ideologies constitute terrorism and which do not?
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  #73  
Old 05 December 2015, 07:58 PM
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https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investi...ism-definition

Based on this definition I think the difference is that for the act to be defined as terrorism there must be an intent to "affect the conduct of a government".
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  #74  
Old 05 December 2015, 08:07 PM
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My WAG (and its purely a guess on my part) is that in the San Bernardino case, if the shooters are linked to ISIS or if they were in communication with other known international terrorists, then it constitutes being part of a larger problem than a domestic group (white supremists) would be. In other words, they're more worried about ISIS or outside threats than someone like Roof.

Whether their decision is driven by other factors such as man-power, national-security policy, or something else, I don't have any idea.

~Psihala
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  #75  
Old 05 December 2015, 08:13 PM
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Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Gun control won't end gun violence and anyone who thinks it would isn't looking carefully enough at countries that aren't as trigger happy as the US.
And we know this because we absolutely refuse to implement any form of gun control.



Sorry, after a while, you just get tired of the song and dance. Anyway, I'll see you guys at the next mass shooting so you can make some more excuses about it!
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  #76  
Old 05 December 2015, 08:17 PM
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I am absolutely in favour of gun control. If my post made you believe otherwise I apologize for not being clearer. However anyone who believes all guns will vanish with gun control is confusing the word "control" with the word "ban". I'm sure you can guess which major organization in your country is leading the way in misleading the public in this regard.
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  #77  
Old 05 December 2015, 08:50 PM
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Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
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My mistake, I was more concerned with your post following on Beachlife's that seemed to also suggest any attempt to even discuss gun control is a waste because it just "won't work."

Of course you can pass common sense gun control, but you have to not let a major organization funded almost entirely by the gun industry control the political process.

There of course needs to be other measures in place, but somehow plenty of other countries have, say, terrible mental health systems but they don't have our insane mass shooting rate. But they do have gun control.

Gun reform is the simplest method of attacking gun violence. Any suggestion that doesn't include it on any level is, to me, a dishonest distraction intended to preserve the status quo.
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  #78  
Old 05 December 2015, 09:07 PM
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Reread my post. I said that gun control as a term has become almost useless.

But you do illustrate my point. You're trying to take the high ground based on nothing but a term. Saying "we need more gun control" without any specifics is what I would call a dishonest distraction.

Your statement "we absolutely refuse to implement any form of gun control." is also false.
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  #79  
Old 05 December 2015, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
It make me sick every time a tragedy like this occurs, but it makes me sicker to see people stand on top of the pile of bodies and act like they somehow had a solution that could have stopped this. If anyone did, I sure has heck never head it.
Other people are standing on top of the bodies and saying that more guns are the answer. I think it's unfair to target gun control advocates (and I have heard many of them cite specific examples of laws they would like to see, such as universal background checks and an end to the prohibition of research on gun safety) when you have people advocating armed teachers as a solution.
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  #80  
Old 05 December 2015, 09:49 PM
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The statement your quoted did not single out gun control advocates, it was universal.
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