snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > Non-UL Chat > Crash and Burn

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21 July 2017, 06:34 PM
E. Q. Taft's Avatar
E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
Join Date: 30 July 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 13,346
No Florida teens who recorded drowning man will not be charged in his death

A group of Florida teens who taunted a drowning man while filming his death from afar will not be criminally charged, according to police.

In the more than two-minute long video, the five teen boys -- who are between the ages of 14 and 16 -- can be heard laughing as the man struggles to stay afloat, police say, in a pond near his family's Cocoa, Florida, home.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/20/us/flo...man/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21 July 2017, 07:00 PM
Seaboe Muffinchucker's Avatar
Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
Join Date: 30 June 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,360
Glasses

I read somewhere recently that 1 in 4 people have no conscience (the article called them sociopaths) and nothing you can do will make them care about other people.

I think five of them got together to do this.

Seaboe
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21 July 2017, 07:09 PM
E. Q. Taft's Avatar
E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
Join Date: 30 July 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 13,346
Default

Yeah.

I can understand they can't be criminally charged, that there's no statute that would have required them to attempt a rescue or even notify authorities -- and I'm not sure how you'd word a law like that, though I'm sure there will be an attempt to do so now. I wonder if a civil suit might be possible, but I'm not sure of the grounds there, either.

All I know is if I'd been the cop interviewing the one teenager who apparently just smirked, I might have found myself up on assault charges afterwards -- and considered it well worth it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21 July 2017, 07:13 PM
WildaBeast's Avatar
WildaBeast WildaBeast is offline
 
Join Date: 18 July 2002
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 14,559
Default

I wonder if at least some of the kids maybe wanted to call for help, but didn't want to be labeled "uncool" by the rest of the group, and just went along with what the others were doing.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21 July 2017, 07:14 PM
Mochrie99's Avatar
Mochrie99 Mochrie99 is offline
 
Join Date: 26 April 2005
Location: Sarnia, Ontario
Posts: 413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
Yeah.

All I know is if I'd been the cop interviewing the one teenager who apparently just smirked, I might have found myself up on assault charges afterwards -- and considered it well worth it.
You'd not be the only one, I fear. I know I would find it nearly impossible to resist doing something physical to them. And, like you, I would probably find my own repercussions supremely worth it.

Vermin, the lot of them. Some humans are beyond help, even in teenagerhood. I venture this gang definitely belong in that catagory. They're irredeemable.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21 July 2017, 07:34 PM
ASL's Avatar
ASL ASL is offline
 
Join Date: 04 July 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 5,214
Ponder

Well, at least these kids are letting everyone feel better about themselves, in their indignation. They should have called for help, sure, assuming the recording they made was on a cell phone they clearly had the means to do so. But that's about all they could have done and I doubt it would have arrived in time. This man killed himself.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21 July 2017, 08:15 PM
E. Q. Taft's Avatar
E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
Join Date: 30 July 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 13,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
I wonder if at least some of the kids maybe wanted to call for help, but didn't want to be labeled "uncool" by the rest of the group, and just went along with what the others were doing.
According to the NY Times article on the incident, one of the kids at least suggested calling the police after the incident, but was discouraged by the others.

I'm sure peer pressure was a factor, but how much of one, for which individuals, is impossible to say.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 21 July 2017, 08:24 PM
E. Q. Taft's Avatar
E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
Join Date: 30 July 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 13,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
Well, at least these kids are letting everyone feel better about themselves, in their indignation. They should have called for help, sure, assuming the recording they made was on a cell phone they clearly had the means to do so. But that's about all they could have done and I doubt it would have arrived in time. This man killed himself.
One could, in some circumstances, understand the lack of action. I would certainly not try to argue that juveniles, in particular, have a legal obligation to have attempted a rescue, particularly if it involved putting themselves at risk (we don't know if any of them could even swim). Not attempting to call for help (even if it was unlikely to arrive in time), or even to report it to anyone afterwards, I find less defensible, but again, possibly understandable in some circumstances.

But it's the callous remarks and lack of any shock or remorse that are causing the outrage. (“Ain’t nobody going to help you, you dumb bitch. You shouldn’t have got in there.") I don't see how anyone with any trace of humanity can fail to be appalled.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 21 July 2017, 08:52 PM
ASL's Avatar
ASL ASL is offline
 
Join Date: 04 July 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 5,214
Icon07

Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
But it's the callous remarks and lack of any shock or remorse that are causing the outrage. (“Ain’t nobody going to help you, you dumb bitch. You shouldn’t have got in there.") I don't see how anyone with any trace of humanity can fail to be appalled.
You're not familiar with the Darwin Awards, are you?

If being appalled is an emotional reaction... I'm not. I know they were morally wrong not to call for emergency services, but I'd be lying if I said I felt anything over it. I learned nothing new about humanity or myself in watching the video or reading the article. All quiet on the western front.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21 July 2017, 11:34 PM
mbravo's Avatar
mbravo mbravo is offline
 
Join Date: 29 December 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 856
Default

You felt nothing over it, but felt the need to criticize others who do?

Would you also feel the same way about someone videotaping (and laughing at) animal abuse from afar? Or any other situation where the bystander isn't actively harming someone, and couldn't do anything to help the situation, but is clearly getting their kicks off of a being's suffering? Because I think a visceral reaction of disgust is pretty normal when presented with this kind of story.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22 July 2017, 01:18 AM
ASL's Avatar
ASL ASL is offline
 
Join Date: 04 July 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 5,214
Mouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbravo View Post
You felt nothing over it, but felt the need to criticize others who do?
Yes. Actually, I'll admit to feeling a slight twinge at seeing these teenagers described as vermin. Vermin is something that, if you were to come upon it in a burlap sack sitting on the edge of a bridge, you would tighten the draw-string on and push off into the water.

I think getting kicks out of human suffering is a pretty human reaction. Or at least there's a strong current of it running through many cultures, almost forming a sub-culture of it's own. There are actually people out there who, straight-faced, believe that people who die due to "stupidity" deserve to die and it's for the good of the gene pool. Some of them even find it funny, whether it's a UL or an actual death.

I learned nothing new about humanity in this thread, nothing I haven't already been exposed to to the point of being numb to it, though I did learn something new about a poster or two on this forum. So that's the feeling, the only feeling, I went off of.

And, as I have said in other posts, I tend to tailor my commentary to who will read it (i.e. members of this forum). Consider the audience. There is nothing I can say to those kids through this forum. There is, however, something I can say to you and everyone else who reads this thread. So that's who I'm going to talk to: you, not them.

Last edited by ASL; 22 July 2017 at 01:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22 July 2017, 01:28 AM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 6,762
Default

Do any of us learn something new when we look at photos of holocaust victims? We've all seen it, studied it, watched movies about it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't still be appalled.

I honestly don't understand why it bothers you that someone called these kids vermin, but it doesn't bother you that these kids called a drowning man a "dumb b****." Why do you assign moral significance to one and not the other?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22 July 2017, 01:37 AM
ASL's Avatar
ASL ASL is offline
 
Join Date: 04 July 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 5,214
Teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
Why do you assign moral significance to one and not the other?
Here, let me help you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
I know they were morally wrong not to call for emergency services, but I'd be lying if I said I felt anything over it.
Reads to me like I did assign moral significance to it. Just didn't have an emotional reaction. Do you think morality need necessarily be linked to emotional reactions? I certainly hope not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
Do any of us learn something new when we look at photos of holocaust victims? [snip] I honestly don't understand why it bothers you that someone called these kids vermin
Well, since you went there, you know who else thought of people as vermin?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 22 July 2017, 01:50 AM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 6,762
Default

Your first point is fair. Your second is flair. I did not suggest that no moral significance should be assigned to calling people vermin. But you're clever enough to know that, and to twist it anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 22 July 2017, 02:03 AM
Richard W's Avatar
Richard W Richard W is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2000
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 25,125
Default

I don't think he twisted it. It's that the "vermin" remark was made in this very thread, and (before ASL stepped in) seemed somewhat representative of the way it was going. The teenagers in question aren't here.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 22 July 2017, 02:09 AM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 6,762
Default

The way he snipped my quote makes it look like I was saying I didn't know why the vermin comment bothered him. Full stop. But that wasn't what I asked at all. I asked why one situation bothered him and not the other.

And the "let me help you" comment was unnecessarily pejorative.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 22 July 2017, 02:14 AM
ASL's Avatar
ASL ASL is offline
 
Join Date: 04 July 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 5,214
Ponder

I guess I just assumed the vermin comment didn't also bother you. If it did, then I misread you.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 22 July 2017, 02:14 AM
E. Q. Taft's Avatar
E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
Join Date: 30 July 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 13,346
Default

It looks like there will be an attempt to pursue charges after all:

Quote:
Police in Florida are pursuing misdemeanor charges against five teenagers for failure to report a death after authorities say they recorded video of a man’s drowning and didn't intervene....“When we initially reviewed this case it was determined there were no laws broken as the teens were not directly involved with the death,” Cantaloupe said in a statement today. "Further research of the statutes and consultation with the State Attorney’s Office yielded the decision to move forward with charges under this statute. It’s our belief that this law has never been enforced in a scenario like this, but we feel it could be applicable.”
http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-reco...ry?id=48769120
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 22 July 2017, 02:18 AM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 6,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
I guess I just assumed the vermin comment didn't also bother you. If it did, then I misread you.
It did bother me. And if you misread my words, then you weren't deliberalty twisting them, and I apologize for accusing you of it.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 22 July 2017, 04:33 PM
Kermor Kermor is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2012
Location: Bois d'Arcy, France
Posts: 286
France

In France, that would be a clear case of "Non-assistance à personne en danger" (failing to assist an endangered person). The law is clear : if, witnessing a situation where, without putting yourself at risk, you failed to help a person in clear danger, you can be brought to trial on a misdemeanour charge, and be sent to prison for a maximum of five yars, and have to pay a fine up to 75 000 € . Nobody asks you to be a hero, but throwing a line to a drowning person would be the least that is expected of you, if you have a line to throw nearby. Here's the french Wikipedia article about that :

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-as...onne_en_danger

But what those teenagers did was worse than that. Their mocking of the victim is despicable. Day after day, I'm losing any hope for the human species.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Florida Man Charged with Decapitating Mom with Ax snopes Police Blotter 1 02 January 2015 12:20 AM
Florida man charged with having sex with roommate's dog snopes Police Blotter 3 05 March 2014 10:53 PM
3 teens charged in death of Australian baseball player mela681 Police Blotter 25 24 August 2013 01:48 PM
Grandmother charged in death of toddler left in hot car Canuckistan Police Blotter 6 05 July 2013 07:42 PM
Drowning Doesn’t Look Like Drowning snopes Crash and Burn 5 05 June 2013 03:59 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.