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  #61  
Old 22 August 2017, 03:45 PM
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Lainie Lainie is offline
 
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Let's say multiple letters are sent, with no response. Multiple notices are posted on the property, with no response. Multiple efforts are made to contact the property owner in person (knocking on the door), still no response.

Has adequate notice been provided? If not, what would the next step be?

I'd also be concerned about the safety of government employees sent out to post notices/knock on doors.

ETA: The harder we make it to enforce collection of taxes, the lower the risk of not paying them. If more people take that risk, enforcement resources become more limited, which makes enforcement even harder, which lowers the risk of not paying. . .
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  #62  
Old 22 August 2017, 03:53 PM
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Certainly there is a limit to what should be done from a cost and practicality standpoint. IMO, posting notices on the gate and the doors of all the affected properties should be done at least. Serving notice via a process server would be prohibitively expensive, especially in properties like these where the owners may not be home for long periods of time.

I doubt there would be a lot of people who would refuse to pay property taxes because enforcement and seizure is a more lengthy process.
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  #63  
Old 22 August 2017, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
I doubt there would be a lot of people who would refuse to pay property taxes because enforcement and seizure is a more lengthy process.
I didn't posit that scenario. I mentioned the possibility that tax delinquency might increase when the likelihood of suffering short-term consequences for it decreases, and noted what the results would be if that happened.

Also, it's not just about people who never pay. Delayed payments are also a problem. How long people will delay payment may be partly dependent on how soon they risk consequences.
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  #64  
Old 22 August 2017, 04:44 PM
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That was exactly what you were positing in your ETA in #61. Unless by "not paying" you mean "paying them late" or by "more people take that risk" you mean "more people legitimately forget about paying".
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  #65  
Old 22 August 2017, 04:58 PM
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By "if," I meant "if." It's a conditional. And I already said, above, that delayed payments are also part of it.

Again, I understand the concerns people have. I just think the idea of putting the onus on the taxing agency sounds better in theory than it would be in reality.
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  #66  
Old 22 August 2017, 07:05 PM
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If there is a road with no intrinsic mailing address, and mail to the address of record from 20 years ago isn't accepted, then the absolute bare minimum would seem to be posting public notices on the street, visible to the people who might have an interest in it. It's a lot easier to put up a notice than to hold a public auction. Maybe they did that and the homeowners didn't respond. It seems unlikely that every one of the $10 million homeowners on that street would ignore properly visible notices that they were tax delinquent to skip out on a few hundred dollars of back taxes. But it's conceivable that they ignored proper notice, in which case it's their fault. However, it's also conceivable that there was no notice besides sending mail to an old address, which seems inadequate.

The HOA probably doesn't have "employees". They hire an accountant who has lots of different clients and is not the employee of any particular client. One of those accountants screwed up, so long ago that it's possible that no current resident was even living there at the time.

The people who run the HOA are not paid, and aren't legally allowed to be. They're regular homeowners just trying to maintain their property like anyone else. In a small HOA it's hard to get a quorum of people willing to volunteer to do it at all, so it's not some kind of prize that attracts competent property managers. They're not professionals who know how to manage properties as their full time career, and they aren't receiving any special compensation for doing it so it doesn't make sense to set a much higher bar for the level of professionalism you'd expect from them than for any other homeowner. If it's not OK to seize someone's property without reaching out to them and giving them a chance to respond, it doesn't become OK just because they structure it so that a few people share that ownership rather than one. It's not a corporation turning a profit, it's just a collection of a few people's homes. The only asset is their shared property values and a small amount of savings for dealing with housing related expenses, so the logic for treating it like a for profit business is not any stronger than it would be for any private citizen's home.
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  #67  
Old 22 August 2017, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
the absolute bare minimum would seem to be posting public notices on the street, visible to the people who might have an interest in it.
Being a gated community, would a city employee have been allowed inside the gate to post notices? Or would the best they would have been able to do have been to post a notice outside the gate and possibly leave some with the security guard? I honestly have no idea how strict these kinds of neighborhoods are regarding who they'll allow inside the gate. I assume they'll allow in delivery people, plumbers, etc. if they have business with a specific resident, but what about a city employee who isn't there to see any resident in particular?
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  #68  
Old 22 August 2017, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
Being a gated community, would a city employee have been allowed inside the gate to post notices? Or would the best they would have been able to do have been to post a notice outside the gate and possibly leave some with the security guard?
Posting it at the gate, giving it to the guard, dropping it in the personal mailboxes of the people who lived on the street. Any of the above. If they did any of those things and the property owners ignored it, then at least the city tried, and the property owners can live with their mistake. But it sounds like they just mailed it to a dead address, which doesn't seem sufficient.

By the way, if you go on Street View, the street gate is open, as well as the sidewalks, and I don't see a guard post. So it seems like maybe they just close the gate at night, and have remote openers in their cars rather than a guard to open it. Doesn't seem like Fort Knox. There has to be some reasonable way they could have made a notice visible to the people living there, even if it was just posting it outside of the gate somewhere that they had to pass by.

I've received public notices for things like a neighbor on an adjacent street requesting a permit for construction, or a utility company planning a scheduled power outage, or a street being shut down, etc. I've had the city post notice on my front door with the status of inspections or permits for construction at my house. These mechanisms exist for making notice visible to people within the geographic vicinity who might be affected by a certain event. It's not rocket science, nor is it a huge administrative burden to print out and post or mail a few flyers.

Last edited by Errata; 22 August 2017 at 08:13 PM.
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