snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > Non-UL Chat > The Bad Gastronomer

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 23 January 2013, 03:36 PM
Beachlife!'s Avatar
Beachlife! Beachlife! is online now
 
Join Date: 22 June 2001
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 28,667
Jolly Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
Are you even aware of what utter BS this is? Coffee has long been America's primary hot caffeinated drink of choice, at all income levels. At least for 100 years. While fancy coffee preparation styles with fancy prices were not common until places like Starbuck's, Seattle's Best, Caribou, etc. started their spread 20 or so years ago, coffee was pitched to, and drunk by, blue collar, white collar, and all ranges of income. Prices could run very high, depending on the establishment, but then a fancier restaurant might as easily offer complimentary coffee at the end of a meal.
Starbucks has been around for more than 40 years. I also don't see why hipsters would be to blame.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 23 January 2013, 03:48 PM
A Turtle Named Mack's Avatar
A Turtle Named Mack A Turtle Named Mack is offline
 
Join Date: 21 June 2007
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 21,451
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
Starbucks has been around for more than 40 years. I also don't see why hipsters would be to blame.
Yeah, after my response to Mateus, I checked the history of coffee in the USA and found that Starbucks has existed since 1971. OTOH, the spread of higher-priced coffee houses as a national trend seemed to me to be 20-30 years ago - of course, each person's perception is colored by when such chains came to their area.

And I have no idea what the 'hipster' comment was about - who blamed them?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 23 January 2013, 03:56 PM
Beachlife!'s Avatar
Beachlife! Beachlife! is online now
 
Join Date: 22 June 2001
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 28,667
Default

Several comments up-thread to blamed hipsters or made mention of them regarding the current coffee trend.

I grew up in Seattle, so I admit that my perceptions on coffee are skewed a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 23 January 2013, 04:10 PM
Avril's Avatar
Avril Avril is offline
 
Join Date: 07 August 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 10,547
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
I'm not defending the Townshend duties, but it's just wrong to suggest the immediate impetus for the Boston Tea party was an increase in tea taxes, when taxes were actually lowered rather than increased.
1. I did not mention the Boston Tea Party in my post about why Americans drink coffee.

2. I did not say that they drank coffee because the taxes were higher on tea; I said they drank it to avoid the taxes on tea. These are different things.

3. I am not, in general, talking about the Boston Tea Party here.

4. The principle at play in coffee drinking--again, not talking generally about the Boston Tea Party--as a not-tea-drinking, is a matter of principles of taxation, not the taxes themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 23 January 2013, 04:30 PM
Alarm's Avatar
Alarm Alarm is offline
 
Join Date: 26 May 2011
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 5,807
Default

Quote:
Coffee's growth isn't just a matter of trading up to more expensive lattes, it's also a case of paying more each year for the same cup. "Much of the revenue growth in the past five years was stimulated by a 14.1% annualized increase in the world price of coffee," which were mostly passed on to customers,
It's also easy to say, "OMG, coffee's getting a bigger share of the market" when really, a big chunk of it is just price increases.

I don't think the price of pop has gone up in the same way, has it?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 23 January 2013, 08:34 PM
Hero_Mike's Avatar
Hero_Mike Hero_Mike is offline
 
 
Join Date: 06 April 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ & Hamilton, ON
Posts: 7,267
Default

I think that coffee marketing has worked very well to expand it beyond a drink for breakfast (where it was often the only "warm" or "hot" item consumed for breakfast), or in the winter (as a hot cup of coffee would be consumed at any time of day to warm up). That just reflects the flexibility of a drink which which can be either "savory" or "sweet", and now cold (iced coffee) as well as hot. It's also been easy to market it to be upscale - higher-quality or exotic beans, more careful roasting, and so on - and that only works if marketed to adults. There are also few diets which don't allow black (near calorie-free) coffee.

There hasn't been any such expansion of the marketing with soda - nobody has really tried to push soda as something to be consumed, say, with breakfast, and only diet soda has been successfully marketed towards adults. There are no "upscale" brands of soda with better ingredients or exotic flavors, which are marketed to adults at a premium price. It's still very much sold to us as a drink of the young, even though most people have grown up with soda for all of their lives, so in the end, it's less flexible than coffee.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 23 January 2013, 08:38 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero_Mike View Post
I think that coffee marketing has worked very well to expand it beyond a drink for breakfast (where it was often the only "warm" or "hot" item consumed for breakfast), or in the winter (as a hot cup of coffee would be consumed at any time of day to warm up).
I'm 51 years old, and when I was growing up adults commonly drank coffee all day long, all year round.

Quote:
That just reflects the flexibility of a drink which which can be either "savory" or "sweet", and now cold (iced coffee) as well as hot.
Now? People drank iced coffee when I was a kid, too.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 23 January 2013, 08:44 PM
BrianB's Avatar
BrianB BrianB is offline
 
Join Date: 03 March 2000
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 3,565
Icon24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
Americans became a coffee people to avoid paying taxes on tea in colonial times, and it steadily grew in popularity.
In Ken Burns's Civil War documentary and its companion book he argues that it was the Civil War that made the US a nation of coffee drinkers. (This article (note: PDF) makes the same argument.) However, that wouldn't necessarily argue against your point. For example, the Revolutionary War could have still been when the trend started but it took the Civil War to make it our national drink.

Brian

ETA:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I'm 51 years old, and when I was growing up adults commonly drank coffee all day long, all year round.
I'm 54 and this is true for me too.
Quote:
Now? People drank iced coffee when I was a kid, too.
Yea, I can remember people drinking iced coffee when I was in elementary school. It wasn't uncommon at all, especially during the summer.

Last edited by BrianB; 23 January 2013 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Added responses to Laine.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 23 January 2013, 08:47 PM
Avril's Avatar
Avril Avril is offline
 
Join Date: 07 August 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 10,547
Default

The War of 1812 didn't hurt matters, either.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 23 January 2013, 08:55 PM
Beachlife!'s Avatar
Beachlife! Beachlife! is online now
 
Join Date: 22 June 2001
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 28,667
Jolly Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I'm 51 years old, and when I was growing up adults commonly drank coffee all day long, all year round....
Older people commonly drink coffee with a sandwich or as the main beverage at dinner.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 23 January 2013, 09:04 PM
BrianB's Avatar
BrianB BrianB is offline
 
Join Date: 03 March 2000
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 3,565
United States

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
The War of 1812 didn't hurt matters, either.
Good point. I'm sure there's a study (or studies) out there that traces American coffee consumption since colonial times. I haven't found one yet, however.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 23 January 2013, 09:12 PM
Hero_Mike's Avatar
Hero_Mike Hero_Mike is offline
 
 
Join Date: 06 April 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ & Hamilton, ON
Posts: 7,267
Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Now? People drank iced coffee when I was a kid, too.
Where you live. Iced coffee was not generally popular, or even available in Canada, until about, say, 15 years ago. YMMV.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 23 January 2013, 09:16 PM
Ariadne's Avatar
Ariadne Ariadne is offline
 
Join Date: 02 March 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,455
Default

I used to drink a ridiculous amount of diet soda, but gave it up about three years ago for health reasons. Now I drink coffee, tea, seltzer, and water. I have regular soda maybe a couple times a month. I wouldn't be surprised if a big part of the movement away from soda is due to health concerns.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 23 January 2013, 09:16 PM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,786
Default

I don't know exactly when coffee drinking became popular in the US but it's certain that coffee houses became popular in England and Europe long before they were common in the US. (And long before that in the Arab world.) They were already important places of social and political exchange in London before the US war of independence. In the US coffee houses didn't really become popular until more immigrants came from Europe in toward the end of the 19th century.

So I have a hard time believing the story the coffee drinking supposedly became popular with the (actually rather complicated) arguments over tea taxes. Chloe mentioned the tea party but it doesn't really matter whether we're talking about that incident or not. The gist of the colonies' objections to being jerked around on issues about tea wouldn't necessarily have led to a rejection of tea. I'm sure that explanation must be wrong. (ETA - I know it's an explanation that was used even soon after the revolution. I just have a hard time believing it.)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 23 January 2013, 09:23 PM
Avril's Avatar
Avril Avril is offline
 
Join Date: 07 August 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 10,547
Default

Americans had a hard time getting tea during and after the Revolution, which is a part of it, to be sure. It's more about how coffee became a part of the national ethos.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 23 January 2013, 09:43 PM
snopes's Avatar
snopes snopes is offline
 
Join Date: 18 February 2000
Location: California
Posts: 109,659
United States

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
I'm not defending the Townshend duties, but it's just wrong to suggest the immediate impetus for the Boston Tea party was an increase in tea taxes, when taxes were actually lowered rather than increased.
That's not quite true. The Tea Act did make the price of tea legally imported to the colonies cheaper (by allowing the East India Company to sell directly to the colonies rather than having to go through middlemen, and by increasing the refund of import duties paid to the East India Company), but the Townshend duty on tea imported to the colonies remained in place at its previous level.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 23 January 2013, 09:58 PM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
Americans had a hard time getting tea during and after the Revolution, which is a part of it, to be sure. It's more about how coffee became a part of the national ethos.
But that's the problem with that argument. It wasn't really part of the US ethos until much later whereas it already had a much bigger following in England and Europe. I think during and after the revolution tea probably became more expensive because the US simply didn't have access to the same trade as Britain did. The "we hate tea now because of all that awful tax business" seems like nothing but a just-so story. I think tea drinking as just on a downward trend in the US for other reasons, price (which was more about the fact that the US no longer had access than any boycotts or taxes) and culture. Seems to me coffee as a drink took off during the 19th century because the US had greater access to coffee grown in the new world than tea whose production was moving to Asia.

As for coffee houses, compared to England and Europe, in the US they barely existed until a hundred years after the revolution and didn't really gain popularity outside of cities until the 1960's. Even after Starbucks' success coffee still has more of an 'ethos' elsewhere in the world, even if the number of cups is comparable or greater in the US, where it's always been cheaper.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 23 January 2013, 10:08 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero_Mike View Post
Where you live. Iced coffee was not generally popular, or even available in Canada, until about, say, 15 years ago. YMMV.
Commercially, maybe. I find it hard to believe no one in Canada figured out they could pour leftover coffee over ice cubes until about 15 years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 23 January 2013, 10:17 PM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,786
Icon86

Yep, that's how they make iced coffee in North America!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 23 January 2013, 10:21 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,585
Default

It's not the correct procedure, according to my coffee aficionado friends, and it's probably not what coffeehouses do. But it's what I saw adults do when I was a kid.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Soda can legend circulating snopes Medical 0 25 September 2008 04:25 AM
Rat in the milkshake snopes Food 7 08 September 2007 12:41 AM
Freddie Starr Drank Dick Emery's Ashes snopes Horrors 7 12 June 2007 07:45 PM
Soda drinkers consume more calories snopes Food 16 05 April 2007 01:41 AM
Soda tap in LBJ's desk snopes Politics 1 09 March 2007 03:37 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.