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  #121  
Old 04 March 2008, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lord_feldon View Post
Were they doing that to be charitable or were they doing it because they were forced by law to do so because it was seen as unacceptable to deny education? Only one of those is tolerable to me.

They weren't forced by law. There was no law at that time guaranteeing a free and appropriate education to kids with disabilities, as there is now. My sister has severe cerebral palsy, and my parents had to go in with other parents and start their own school, because there was no school for kids with severe disabilities.
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  #122  
Old 04 March 2008, 02:52 AM
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Here I am, the one true child of the 60's and everything I've said has been belittled, misrepresented or dismissed with the allegation that I don't know what I'm talking about. How sad that you have been led to believe that the entire country was like the deep south. I don't know if I'm more sad or shocked to discover how distorted your understanding is of that era.
I really don't think most of the people in this thread believe the South was representative of the country at large. I think their issue is that you seem to be ignoring it.

I also think people are bristling at your condescending tone. You say you're being belittled, but I have found quite a bit of what you posted in this thread at least equally belittling.

Avril

ETA: Both Brad from Georgia and snopes, who have posted things in this thread contradicting you, are old enough to remember the 1960's.

Last edited by Avril; 04 March 2008 at 02:59 AM.
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  #123  
Old 04 March 2008, 03:08 AM
BatmanBeatles BatmanBeatles is offline
 
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Here I am, the one true child of the 60's and everything I've said has been belittled, misrepresented or dismissed with the allegation that I don't know what I'm talking about. How sad that you have been led to believe that the entire country was like the deep south. I don't know if I'm more sad or shocked to discover how distorted your understanding is of that era.
My parents told me many things about the 60's that is contrary to what you've stated. Are they then not true children ofthe 60's?
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  #124  
Old 04 March 2008, 03:36 AM
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My memories of the 60s are generally positive. I'm sorry but any decade that featured The Beatles and Bobby Sherman can't be all bad . Anyway, generally I think what I remember best about the 60s was the feeling of hope and optimism that seemed so prevalent then. We really thought we could change the world - and in some ways we did - and it was good.
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  #125  
Old 04 March 2008, 03:54 AM
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My parents told me many things about the 60's that is contrary to what you've stated. Are they then not true children ofthe 60's?
How does what your parents experienced cancel out the experience someone else had during the same time period? I would suggest if your parents and Sara sat down together they would have some shared experiences in common. Certainly more than those of us who were children in the 60s, or never lived through that decade at all.
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  #126  
Old 04 March 2008, 04:14 AM
BatmanBeatles BatmanBeatles is offline
 
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How does what your parents experienced cancel out the experience someone else had during the same time period?
I'm responding to the statement that we are basing the 60's on the deep south. That's not fair. My parents didn't live in the deep south, but they wouldn't go back to that time. Both my parents don't like to think about the Vietnam war. They did love the music, though. My dad taught me to love the Beatles. My mom is crazy about Neil Diamond.
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  #127  
Old 04 March 2008, 04:15 AM
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I'll start with the first -- the only town I ever heard of being burned down was Rosewood, FL. That happened in 1927. As for the rest, when those things happened, they simply didn't happened in the whole country. The exception would be the assisinations of Malcolm X and Robert Kennedy (who wasn't "colored" by the way but I thought I'd give you that one anyway). They happened in highly segregated states. Again, don't paint the picture of the whole country by the events that happened in the south.
Segregation wasn't just an issue in the traditional south, and neither was racial violence. Michigan, Illinois, California, and DC all had serious racial strife, and DC is about the closest to "South" in that list. I would suggest that you not paint the picture of the whole country by the events that happened in your town.

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The rest of you know what you know from history, be it books, TV shows or oral history.
Wouldn't oral history be the exact same sort of history you're giving us? What makes your oral history different from the huge quantities of oral history that exist about the sixties and tell different stories?
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  #128  
Old 04 March 2008, 06:34 AM
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Okay the part about no guns in school I have to disagree with! I grew up in the 60's and went to a small school in Oregon. We had Hunters Safety Classes at School every year and we Took our guns to school for the class, on the school bus every day for a week. Granted we had to give the ammo to the bus driver and she gave it to the principal when we got to school then the rifles where put in the cloak rooms. And both Girls and Boys participated in the class.
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  #129  
Old 04 March 2008, 07:17 AM
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lord_feldon lord_feldon is offline
 
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Anecdotally, it was common in my school district to take hunting rifles in to "show off" well into the 90's.
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  #130  
Old 04 March 2008, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Sara@home View Post

Here I am, the one true child of the 60's and everything I've said has been belittled, misrepresented or dismissed with the allegation that I don't know what I'm talking about. How sad that you have been led to believe that the entire country was like the deep south. I don't know if I'm more sad or shocked to discover how distorted your understanding is of that era.
Would an adult of the 60s or somebody who didn't live through the 60s at all have a clearer interpretation, though? I was a child of the 90s and I know bugger all about the general 90s overview. I could tell you how great I thought it was, and all the things I believed to be happening ... But I was a child and I was looking at it in a childish way.

Both aren't accurate, but informed hindsight is clearer than rose-tinted glass.

Nobody is saying you don't know what you're talking about. People are just doubting how accurate in a sweeping and more general way your fond memories might be, as they'd doubt their own from their own childhood. This is in response to the main topic, remember, which is a very biased, loaded and inaccurate description of the 60s and nowadays. Those who've been a child recently, in the 90s or 00s even, have just as much right to defend their timeframe as you have to defend yours when somebody says 'it was better back then'.
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  #131  
Old 04 March 2008, 12:00 PM
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I think so. My aunts hated to have to wear shorts under their dresses so they could play on the monkey bars.
My daughter was born in 1993, and when she chose to wear dresses to school, I made her wear shorts under them. Some things never change, and little boys looking up little girls' dresses when they get the chance is one of them.

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Originally Posted by Sara@home View Post
I never went to a segregated school. My parents never went to a segregated school.
The schools in my town were not segregated, but the neighborhoods were. Almost every black family in town lived in one neighborhood until well into the 1970s.

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My parents had friends their age who were an interracial couple. I had friends my age who were biracial.
The only interracial couples I saw before high school were at Jehovah's Witnesses conventions in big cities, and there were only a few of those.

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Another of my friends turned out to be gay. It wasn't as if anyone (possibley including him) really knew until we were older but in elementary school, we were "boyfriend and girlfriend" for a while.
Well, yes, there were gay people in the 1960s. One of my high school (1976-1980) friends was gay. And closeted. And in denial. And constantly taunted for his somewhat effeminate speech and mannerisms.

ETA: I guess what I'm saying is that it's just as easy to oversimplify an era based on one own's anecdotal recollections as it is to oversimplify it based on what one learns in a history class.
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  #132  
Old 04 March 2008, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sara@home View Post
Here I am, the one true child of the 60's
There was only one of you?! No wonder it was a simple time!
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  #133  
Old 04 March 2008, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Twankydillo View Post
Would an adult of the 60s or somebody who didn't live through the 60s at all have a clearer interpretation, though? I was a child of the 90s and I know bugger all about the general 90s overview. I could tell you how great I thought it was, and all the things I believed to be happening ... But I was a child and I was looking at it in a childish way.

Both aren't accurate, but informed hindsight is clearer than rose-tinted glass.

Nobody is saying you don't know what you're talking about. People are just doubting how accurate in a sweeping and more general way your fond memories might be, as they'd doubt their own from their own childhood. This is in response to the main topic, remember, which is a very biased, loaded and inaccurate description of the 60s and nowadays. Those who've been a child recently, in the 90s or 00s even, have just as much right to defend their timeframe as you have to defend yours when somebody says 'it was better back then'.
I don't think Sara has actually said "it was better then" -- she is saying that the 60s she lived was not the 60s of the Deep South and that there was much about the 60s as she lived it as an adult that were positive and that tend to get overlooked and dismissed when these kinds of conversations take place. I agree no one can say they have the last definitive word on *anything* but when people like Natalie go out of their way to dismiss one's personal experience as irrelevant to a discussion on what the 60s were like I can understand a certain degree of anger colouring one's responses. Can't you?

I'd be seriously annoyed (to say the least) if someone presumed to tell me what it is like to live in Ottawa based on a book they read or a tv show they saw or the geography lesson they had in grade 5!
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  #134  
Old 04 March 2008, 01:41 PM
Natalie Natalie is offline
 
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The schools in my town were not segregated, but the neighborhoods were. Almost every black family in town lived in one neighborhood until well into the 1970s.
As far as I understand this situation was pretty common. Obviously legal school segregation started to end in 1954, but residential segregation remained and created de facto school segregation, leading to busing in a lot of communities. I did an internship with a researcher who studies residential segregation and deliberately all-white towns in the United States, and the list is quite impressive.

My bf grew up in Flint and Lansing and his mother remembers busing-related protests from the late 60s and early 70s on. (Michigan has some pretty entrenched racial strife, though, so it's not surprising they would be ahead of the curve, so to speak.)
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  #135  
Old 04 March 2008, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
As far as I understand this situation was pretty common. Obviously legal school segregation started to end in 1954, but residential segregation remained and created de facto school segregation, leading to busing in a lot of communities.
The elementary school that served the "black area" of our town also served predominantly white area, so it was very integrated. The other elementary schools were largely segregated, with perhaps a handful of black kids in each one. There was (and still is) only one junior high/middle school and only one high school, so after elementary school the schools were integrated.
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  #136  
Old 04 March 2008, 01:46 PM
Christie Christie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
The schools in my town were not segregated, but the neighborhoods were. Almost every black family in town lived in one neighborhood until well into the 1970s.
Where I grew up there were very few black families in our neighbourhood and this is still somewhat true today. I live in a suburb of Ottawa and, sadly, the places one tends to notice black families is in the areas within our neighbourhood that are intended for "geared to income" families. Of course there are black families living in the "regular" suburbs but not many.
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  #137  
Old 04 March 2008, 01:58 PM
Natalie Natalie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
The elementary school that served the "black area" of our town also served predominantly white area, so it was very integrated. The other elementary schools were largely segregated, with perhaps a handful of black kids in each one. There was (and still is) only one junior high/middle school and only one high school, so after elementary school the schools were integrated.
Ah, then this is different than the situation I am familiar with, where there is a school in the black part of town and a school in the white part of town. Or in other cases, there are two towns or one city and various suburbs, but all with separate schools.

The town I lived in Ohio took a slightly different tack when integration came along - they integrated the school, but not the classrooms. White students and white teachers were separated from black students and black teachers. I think it took another ten years or so before the classrooms themselves were integrated.
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  #138  
Old 04 March 2008, 02:11 PM
BatmanBeatles BatmanBeatles is offline
 
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My daughter was born in 1993, and when she chose to wear dresses to school, I made her wear shorts under them. Some things never change, and little boys looking up little girls' dresses when they get the chance is one of them.
True. However, she got to choose. One of my aunts was the first one to be able to wear pants in school. She was excited about it.
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