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  #21  
Old 05 January 2013, 12:33 PM
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Zorro Zorro is offline
 
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That, too.
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  #22  
Old 06 January 2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
Also, I can attest that there is definitely prayer in the schools already: "Oh, Lord, PLEASE let me pass this test!"
And that's why there will always be prayer in school!
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  #23  
Old 07 January 2013, 12:57 AM
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Cobalt Indigo Cobalt Indigo is offline
 
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Reposting this from another post I made:

"My whole issue with people who make an issue over prayer in schools is that most Christians who want prayer and subsequently God in their schools only want their God in schools, and all other gods and religions banned and never seen again. At least that's the opinion of my local area and Facebook feed. As a mother and a Pagan, I don't want my daughter being pressured to pray to the Christian God instead of the Goddess simply because every one else, including school staff, is, and I wouldn't want anyone else's children doing the same. There's this whole, "well you're god isn't my god so who cares?" mentality and it drives me up the wall. I know Paganism and all of its subcultures is a minority compared to the Abrahamic religions, but that doesn't deem them less important.

So basically, in my opinion, if you're going to let God in schools, let all gods in or nothing at all."
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  #24  
Old 07 January 2013, 01:10 AM
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crocoduck_hunter crocoduck_hunter is offline
 
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Any such measure violates all three prongs of the Lemon Test.
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  #25  
Old 07 January 2013, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt Indigo View Post
So basically, in my opinion, if you're going to let God in schools, let all gods in or nothing at all."
That's basically how the first amendment works with Establishment (in theory at least). In public institutions where the government is conveying a message (like public schools), you cannot make any preference regarding religion, which is why they tend to avoid the subject whenever possible (unless you are from a state where they try to teach subjects like creationism - grrr)

Of course I would argue that any sort of introduction of religion is a bad idea since it would be impossible to a) include them all since there are too many religions to cover b) it would be impossible to prevent bias - where they would focus heavily on what they want to teach (Christianity) and basically minimize any mention of anything else to the point where they can technically get away with their behavior by pointing out that they don't exclude other religions.

That's the trouble with minority religions, nobody really thinks about them and getting defenders is mighty hard.
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  #26  
Old 07 January 2013, 01:25 AM
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Especially given that in many places, outing one's self as being a member of a minority religion could cause you to be subjected to significant levels of discrimination or harassment.
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  #27  
Old 07 January 2013, 03:24 AM
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That's another big problem too...
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  #28  
Old 09 January 2013, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Temple View Post
Do state legislators take an oath to uphold the Constitution?

I've said for years that when the SCOTUS overturns a law because it violates people's Constitutional rights, anyone who voted for it should be thrown out of office and barred from holding office again, just like officers of the Confederacy. Granted, it wouldn't apply here, since it looks like it's going to fail.
As much as I like the idea of getting rid of legislators like Mr. Kruse, I think your proposal is problematic. Supreme Court decisions are difficult to predict, and the Constitution prohibits federal courts from issuing advisory opinions (meaning if you're thinking of passing a law but aren't sure whether it passes Constitutional muster, you can't just ask SCOTUS or even a lower federal court judge to assess it for you in advance; you have to pass the law and wait to see if someone challenges it.) Even if you had an expert on Constitutional law to advise you, the Supreme Court has this annoying habit of changing its mind. It only took them 14 years to go from "the Constitution does not confer a fundamental right to homosexual sodomy" in Bowers v. Hardwick, to "Bowers was wrong when it was decided, and remains so now" in Lawrence v. Texas. What would happen if a legislator, say, passed a law allowing same-sex marriage, which was then struck down, but then years later that decision was overruled? Would you reinstate the legislators who enacted the now-Constitutional law? Would their replacements get the boot?
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  #29  
Old 09 January 2013, 08:25 AM
fitz1980 fitz1980 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
Seriously, what is the big deal about prayer in school?
For a lot of these religious people it's the idea that we (We meaning Christians) let Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Wiccans, ect know that they are second class citizens. That type of biggotry is very popular among the political right in the US. That's why they constantly claim that "we are a Christian Nation" when the first amendment says otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
For the life of me, I cannot figure out how prayer in school would prevent atrocities such as Sandy Hook.
If g-you want to pray, you can do that before you leave for class.
There is a whole Evangelical school of "thought" which claims that US citizens are protected by God, but he may take that away should we stray too far from Christianity. Look at what Mike Huckaby said about Sandy Hook. Because we don't have administrator lead prayer in public school God let all of those kids get killed.
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  #30  
Old 09 January 2013, 03:52 PM
jayjaybear jayjaybear is offline
 
 
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Yes...I can see how all that prayer in Catholic churches prevented child sex abuse so well...
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  #31  
Old 09 January 2013, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
For a lot of these religious people it's the idea that we (We meaning Christians) let Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Wiccans, ect know that they are second class citizens. That type of biggotry is very popular among the political right in the US. That's why they constantly claim that "we are a Christian Nation" when the first amendment says otherwise.
Some will say "Judeo-Christian" if they're feeling particularly charitable.
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  #32  
Old 10 January 2013, 01:57 AM
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Gah, just realized too late to edit--it was 17 years between Bowers and Lawrence, not 14. My apologies.
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