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Old 24 April 2018, 12:35 PM
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Icon13 "Dog Lovers": A City Menace?

From the Baltimore Sun: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opi...419-story.html

While the writer is correct to call out irresponsible dog owners who rashly assume that everyone wants dogs in their face, he comes off as a world class, get-off-my-lawn jerk. Bet he's real fun at parties.
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Old 24 April 2018, 01:18 PM
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Yeah, he has a point. It is hard to walk at the nearby park and NOT have dogs jump on you. For me, a 6' guy, it is not so bad. For my kids, it is. A while ago a woman's uncontrolled dog jumped up on and knocked over my 5 year old. The woman thought it was great that her dog loved my daughter SO much! My daughter was fine, and the woman had NO idea why I thought it was a big deal, and probably thought I was an ass for asking why her dog was off its leash in a park that doesn't allow that (there is a fenced in dog area. The dog was not in it.) Most people are great with their dogs, but the ones that are not get the attention (like I didn't really pay much attention to MOST of the cyclists I passed today, just the one who swerved through traffic to run the red.)
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  #3  
Old 24 April 2018, 01:29 PM
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I think heís perfectly reasonable, I was run at by a dog agressivley protecting ďitsĒ space when I was out for my run the other day and the owner didnít seem to comprehend why I was irate at her telling me to stop and wait whilst she ambled over at a saunter to collect it and put it on a lead.

If you canít call your dog off, Keep it on a lead!

If you have to rely on strangers acting in a specific manner in order for your dog to calm down, Keep it on a lead!

She had two other dogs with her that were perfectly well behaved and I often enjoy a run with some of the more playful dogs I encounter when out jogging but this one was out of control. God knows what would happen if it went for a small child in the same way.
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Old 24 April 2018, 01:47 PM
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Dog

The author of the piece was interviewed by the morning crew of my favorite FM station. He said that the responses were very favorable, and I certainly agree with the premise, but gads, what a 'tude!

All of Pearl's predecessors had off-leash privileges but only if we were in on isolated trails in the woods. If I saw someone approaching, I immediately called my dog and leashed her. To me, off leash is a privilege that can be revoked at any time. And it's contingent on place, thus sayeth the Walker of Dogs.
The summer before Flanders died, I was walking her off leash on a trail when I saw a jogger approaching. I quickly called her (FLANDERS! COME!!) and the tone of my voice was such that I startled the jogger! I leashed Flanders and apologized to him for scaring him. I also explained my off-leash policy.
Pearl of course will never have off leash privileges: she's a beagle and would be halfway across the state before I even knew what direction she was headed in. She's good in the yard, dog park and house, but I do not trust her off leash.
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Old 24 April 2018, 02:44 PM
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Yeah, our late beagle was a GREAT dog, very loving, very smart, but her nose totally ran the show.
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  #6  
Old 24 April 2018, 03:35 PM
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I bet he has cats, and they run free.

Don't get me wrong--if someone's off-leash dog approaches me in a non-off-leash area, I'm willing to be quite rude about it.

Seaboe
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Old 24 April 2018, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
I bet he has cats, and they run free.
And you are basing that ad hominem attack on...?
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  #8  
Old 24 April 2018, 03:58 PM
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I was walking down the street last night and noticed a big dog in a yard snuffling around in the very tall unmowed lawn and a woman on the footpath told me "Don't worry, he's just eating grass." I'm pretty sure she didn't live there and she was just letting her dog run loose in other people's yards while they walked to the local park.
That park also has a very clearly posted "All dogs must be leashed" rule but there's a fence all around it so people let their dogs run free in it anyway, but they usually tend to wait until the evening when the families with small kids have moved on.
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Old 24 April 2018, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
And you are basing that ad hominem attack on...?
Personal experience. IME, most people see nothing wrong with letting cats run around unleashed, but want dogs under control at all times.

I agree that dogs should be under control at all reasonable times, but disagree that cats should roam free.

Seaboe
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  #10  
Old 24 April 2018, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
Personal experience. IME, most people see nothing wrong with letting cats run around unleashed, but want dogs under control at all times.

I agree that dogs should be under control at all reasonable times, but disagree that cats should roam free.

Seaboe
A) Your experience doesn't match what cat owners actually do. "By 2014, about 70 percent are defined as indoor only, with about 25 percent inside or outside as they desire, with the remaining five percent described as outside only."
B) Free-roaming cats do not generally charge up to people as is his complaint about unleashed dogs. There are many issues with uncontrolled cats, but that's generally not one of them.
C) Whether or not the author does believe in letting cats roam free has no bearing on whether or not he has a valid point about the problems of free roaming dogs.
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  #11  
Old 24 April 2018, 08:14 PM
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He makes some good points, especially about aggressive dogs, and owners who illegally/inappropriately leave their dogs unleashed. People should be able to walk in a public park, or on a public sidewalk, without worrying about someone's unleashed dog bothering them -- or worse.

He does use far too broad a brush, though. I had a dog some years ago (RIP, Pebbles), and if anything it made me more conscious of/worried about/angry over unleashed dogs, because I had to worry about my dog's safety as well as my own. I'm sure I'm not the only dog owner to feel that way.

And while I understand that not everyone likes dogs, and that even those who do may not enjoy close interaction with a random stranger's dog, I'm baffled by the idea that such interactions are at all relevant to one's "honor and dignity as a human being."
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  #12  
Old 25 April 2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I'm baffled by the idea that such interactions are at all relevant to one's "honor and dignity as a human being."
I'm thinking he was referring to dogs that immediately shove their noses into someone's crotch.
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Old 25 April 2018, 02:04 PM
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I agree absolutely that no one should be subjected to a random dog nose in their crotch while out and about. But I can't imagine considering my "honor and dignity as a human" threatened by an unwanted dog nose in my crotch. Maybe the writer's honor and dignity is just more fragile than mine.
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  #14  
Old 25 April 2018, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
And while I understand that not everyone likes dogs, and that even those who do may not enjoy close interaction with a random stranger's dog, I'm baffled by the idea that such interactions are at all relevant to one's "honor and dignity as a human being."
Many years ago, I shared living quarters with a human who appeared to think that humans needed to be at the top of all social hierarchies, including those of non-humans. He scolded me once for letting a cat -- snarl at me? disrespect me somehow? I've forgotten the details. I said to him that I didn't bother getting into dominance battles with cats. He said, that's because you give in. Thinking that it just didn't matter apparently wasn't a possibility in his worldview.

FWIW, I didn't need to argue with the cat in large part because he weighed twelve pounds, and both of us knew perfectly well that if it came right down to anything serious I would just pick him up and put him where I wanted him -- which, when I felt it necessary, I did. But I didn't see why the cat needed to acknowledge that I had any right to do this when we both knew it was true in practice. I didn't, and don't, think that had anything to do with my worth as a human; but that particular person thought that it did.
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Old 25 April 2018, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
FWIW, I didn't need to argue with the cat in large part because he weighed twelve pounds, and both of us knew perfectly well that if it came right down to anything serious I would just pick him up and put him where I wanted him -- which, when I felt it necessary, I did. But I didn't see why the cat needed to acknowledge that I had any right to do this when we both knew it was true in practice.
I play the dominance game with my dog (who weighs 18 lbs and is easily portable--and he knows it) because I've found he is much more likely to obey commands when I do. The dominance game involves turning him onto his back on my lap and making him look at me.

Seaboe
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Old 25 April 2018, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
I play the dominance game with my dog (who weighs 18 lbs and is easily portable--and he knows it) because I've found he is much more likely to obey commands when I do. The dominance game involves turning him onto his back on my lap and making him look at me.

Seaboe
It's a bit different for dogs, I feel. You can play the dominance game with a cat all you like, all you'll get is cross and vexed.
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Old 25 April 2018, 04:02 PM
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Seaboe, that sort of thing can make sense in some cases.

But a dog shouldn't be expected to obey the commands of a random stranger on the street. And I wasn't expecting the cat to obey any commands at all.

-- For that matter, attempting to hold that particular cat upside down against his will and make him look at me (or, more accurately, make him let me stare him in the eyes, which is an invasion and a threat) would only have resulted in my needing lots of bandages; though there is somewhat of an equivalent in cats, which is taking a firm grasp on the scruff of the neck. (Do not, however, lift a grown or mostly grown cat entirely by the scruff without additional support to the rest of the body.) I occasionally use this technique on a cat; but while it can result in the cat admitting it won't win the specific battle, it doesn't IME seem to have any effect on whether the cat thinks it should have the right to win the battle. -- I just actually did that while typing this, to get the Young Cat to stop chewing on me. He's stopped; but he's reserving the right to try it again some other time. This particular cat is never going to recognize that The Wrestling Game With Claws and Teeth should not be played with humans.
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  #18  
Old 25 April 2018, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
I just actually did that while typing this, to get the Young Cat to stop chewing on me. He's stopped; but he's reserving the right to try it again some other time. This particular cat is never going to recognize that The Wrestling Game With Claws and Teeth should not be played with humans.
Any dominance game played with a cat ends with said cat twirling his mustache and saying "you win this round, human, but I will return! mwahahahaha"

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  #19  
Old 25 April 2018, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
But a dog shouldn't be expected to obey the commands of a random stranger on the street. And I wasn't expecting the cat to obey any commands at all.
Dogs are definitely different from cats, and I agree they shouldn't be expected to obey the commands of strangers. However, given that my BFF's cats all obey commands, I do not think cats are untrainable.

Seaboe
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Old 25 April 2018, 08:52 PM
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Some cats can be trained by some people, yes. I didn't mean to imply that no cat can ever be trained by any person. But I don't personally usually try to take it any further than 'cats are not allowed on the kitchen table or counters! at least, not while I'm close enough to catch them at it!'

ETA: They do, more or less, come when I call them. That is, they do so when they get around to it, and when they're willing to be caught. And I have taught a number of cats to sleep on the bed 'soft side toward the human' when their natural inclination seems to be 'face, and therefore all the potentially sharp points, toward the human'; but this same current Young Cat is still intermittently resisting that one, and he's been here five years.
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