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Old 05 March 2018, 08:12 PM
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Heavt breathing Teens inhale cancer-causing chemicals in e-cigarettes

Smoking e-cigarettes delivers cancer-causing chemicals that get into the body — and popular fruity flavors appear to be the worst, researchers reported Monday.

Many studies support the theory that kids who vape are more likely to go on to use other tobacco products, but there hasn’t been much hard evidence about how directly dangerous e-cigarettes are. Monday’s study shows vaping delivers harmful chemicals and potentially harmful chemicals.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...rettes-n853611
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  #2  
Old 06 March 2018, 02:16 PM
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Every time I see one of these reports, I always wonder whether or not the researchers are using the cheap crap found in convenience stores or the quality stuff found in vape stores. I've checked the ingredients of the latter and all I see are flavorings, amount of nicotine and some kind of edible oil, usually vegetable oil. Not all e-juices are created equal. However I wish that there was a flavorless/odorless option. IMO vaping would be more acceptable if there were and this whole discussion about e-juices would be moot. Again my opinion.

Full disclosure: DH has been vaping for 3 years and it's made all the difference in the world for him. So yes, I am biased despite my best efforts to not be.
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Old 06 March 2018, 08:08 PM
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I still suspect that it's safer than actually smoking cigarettes (and it's much less unpleasant to be around), but I certainly see the problem of it serving as a kind of gateway to tobacco use.

As far as ingredients, I know I've read that once concern is that the market more-or-less unregulated, so whatever it says on the label, no one can really be sure just what is in the package. I don't know if that's something that has changed or is in the process of changing in the past few years, as both vaping and concern about it has grown.

But it certainly shouldn't be seen as something that's 100% safe. (Of course, neither is breathing...)
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Old 06 March 2018, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Teens inhale cancer-causing chemicals
Is that better or worse than eating Tide Pods?
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  #5  
Old 06 March 2018, 09:55 PM
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DawnStorm, I think the issue of whether vaping is an improvement for people already addicted to tobacco should be treated as an entirely separate issue from whether it's a good idea for people who aren't so addicted; and, even for the no-nicotine versions, as a separate issue from marketing them to people who previously weren't smoking anything at all.

Do the labels you see tell you what the flavorings are made of? "Flavoring" is a term that covers an awful lot of ground. And not everything that's safe to swallow is safe to inhale.
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Old 07 March 2018, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
DawnStorm, I think the issue of whether vaping is an improvement for people already addicted to tobacco should be treated as an entirely separate issue from whether it's a good idea for people who aren't so addicted; and, even for the no-nicotine versions, as a separate issue from marketing them to people who previously weren't smoking anything at all.

Do the labels you see tell you what the flavorings are made of? "Flavoring" is a term that covers an awful lot of ground. And not everything that's safe to swallow is safe to inhale.
This.

On the first point, if they are looking at fruit flavored things primarily used by teens, it's about getting them started on something that is addictive and possibly dangerous. And teens are more likely to be buying the cheapest stuff as well, if that is an issue.

And on the second point, oil is generally not something you want in your lungs.

And AIUI, unlike with a(ny other) drug, they have not had to prove that these things are safe in order to market them. Rather, the FDA has to prove them unsafe. One of the many ways tobacco/nicotine regulation is messed up.

Last edited by erwins; 07 March 2018 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 07 March 2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
I still suspect that it's safer than actually smoking cigarettes (and it's much less unpleasant to be around). . .
MMV. The flavorings in the vape clouds I walk through are cloying enough that to me they're not significantly less unpleasant than a cloud of smoke.
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Old 07 March 2018, 03:03 PM
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As a teacher I see vaping being the new big thing and that concerns me.

As a former smoker who used vaping to quit, I think it has some significant benefits for people already addicted who want to quit/smoke less.

I'm glad they are doing research. I get particularly concerned when I hear health classes expressing dramatic statements when there isn't a lot of valid research on whatever they are discussing. It makes me facepalm because kids aren't idiots, and when you overstate or lie to kids it makes everything you say suspect.
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Old 07 March 2018, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
Every time I see one of these reports, I always wonder whether or not the researchers are using the cheap crap found in convenience stores or the quality stuff found in vape stores. I've checked the ingredients of the latter and all I see are flavorings, amount of nicotine and some kind of edible oil, usually vegetable oil. Not all e-juices are created equal. However I wish that there was a flavorless/odorless option. IMO vaping would be more acceptable if there were and this whole discussion about e-juices would be moot. Again my opinion.

Full disclosure: DH has been vaping for 3 years and it's made all the difference in the world for him. So yes, I am biased despite my best efforts to not be.
The report indicates that the researchers had no influence in what was used. They were studying users of e-cigarettes and did not supply them with the materials. The users came in to answer a questionnaire and have specimens taken.

Adolescent Exposure to Toxic Volatile Organic Chemicals From E-Cigarettes
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Old 07 March 2018, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by St. Alia View Post
As a teacher I see vaping being the new big thing and that concerns me.

As a former smoker who used vaping to quit, I think it has some significant benefits for people already addicted who want to quit/smoke less.
I remember the bathrooms at my high school smelling of ancient cigarette smoke. Around the time I went to high school, smoking was fairly unpopular- at least in all the times I went into the bathroom I never saw or smelled someone actively smoking. Other people did, so it's not like it never happened, but it wasn't a pervasive issue. (More kids probably smoked pot, but had the brains not to do it in the school building)
But I think the pendulum may now be swinging back the other way. Some students with siblings at the high school have told me vaping is now a huge issue up there.
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Old 07 March 2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post

Do the labels you see tell you what the flavorings are made of? "Flavoring" is a term that covers an awful lot of ground. And not everything that's safe to swallow is safe to inhale.
I'm not sure--I will check DH's e-juice when I get home and report back.


Erwins--I think the only thing inhaled is the dry steam; TTBOMK the oil holds everything together; it is not inhaled.

Lainie--I really wish there was a scent free option; I've had to remind DH that not everyone wants to smell vanilla, butterscotch or whatever he's got in the e-cig. (put that under TYSHTTP) To my knowledge there is no non-flavored option--I really wish there was. I don't find the smell obnoxious, but if ex-smokers want vaping to be accepted, they have to give a little on the flavors. A RL friend of mine vapes and one day in the dog park, some kid noticed it, and said 'you're smoking!' Friend explained what it really was and emphasized that e-cigs were for ex-smokers, and please for the love of all that's holy don't make the same mistake I did and get addicted to nicotine. It was a great teaching moment for the kid and Mom like the way Friend handled it.

Last edited by DawnStorm; 07 March 2018 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 07 March 2018, 05:39 PM
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It's the "fruity" smells that make me queasy.
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Old 07 March 2018, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
Erwins--I think the only thing inhaled is the dry steam; TTBOMK the oil holds everything together; it is not inhaled.
Where did that concept come from? (And what is "dry steam"?)

E-cigarettes produce an aerosol. It is not steam, and it is unclear exactly what is in it, but is there any reason to think that any part of the liquid would not be in it?
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Old 07 March 2018, 07:23 PM
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Dry steam is water vapor that does not contain any recondensed water. But I doubt such exists in an e-cig as it would need to be quite close to, if not above 212°F for this to happen.

An easy way to find out if the oil vaporizes would be to see if there is any residue left in the e-cig when it is done being used. If not, then the oil is being vaporized along with everything else.
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Old 08 March 2018, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
An easy way to find out if the oil vaporizes would be to see if there is any residue left in the e-cig when it is done being used. If not, then the oil is being vaporized along with everything else.
Actually, I don't think that would settle it. If there's no residue, everything got vaporized; but if there is residue, you'd have to analyze the residue, and you'd have to know how much of what was found in the residue was in the original dose, in order to be able to check that all the oil was still in the e-cig. Otherwise, there's no way to tell whether at least some of the oil did get vaporized.
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Old 08 March 2018, 04:35 PM
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Read This!

OK folks, here's the ingredients on DH's most recent e-juice: Propylene glycol; vegetable glycerin; natural and\or artificial flavors; nicotine if indicated; may contain trace elements of nuts.

The bottle did not say what's in the flavors; that's a search I don't have time for right now.
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Old 14 March 2018, 08:59 PM
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FDA regulations regarding e-liquids can be found here:

https://www.fda.gov/tobaccoproducts/.../ucm456610.htm

Full ingredient lists are not due until May 2018 for non small scale manufacturers, and November 2018 for small scale manufacturers.

New submission guidance docs can be found here:

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Tobacc.../UCM527044.pdf

E liquid is not as tightly regulated as it needs to be, which is what they appear to be addressing.

The wheels run slowly, but they run.
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Old 14 March 2018, 11:09 PM
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Hi, LadyLockeout! Nice to "see" you.
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Old 14 March 2018, 11:25 PM
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*waves from deep in the freezer*
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Old 15 March 2018, 12:08 PM
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Yeah long time no see!
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