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  #21  
Old 26 November 2017, 09:23 PM
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On another topic - what happens if someone dies leaving debt? I understand that anything in the estate would need to be liquidated to meet any outstanding debt so any heirs would be out of luck if there was nothing left (at least I assume that's the case) but what happens if there is more debt than estate? Do the creditors just write off any loans or outstanding credit card balances or whatever? The reason I ask is because a friend of mine just lost her brother, her deeply in debt brother, and she's convinced "they" are going to come after her and their parents to meets his debts. I've tried to reassure her that this won't happen but, well, can it?
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  #22  
Old 26 November 2017, 10:07 PM
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If we are talking the States, the estate's assets stand for the debts. If the debts aren't covered, creditors are out of luck. This does not mean they won't try to come after the family members though. They just can't legally do anything to collect. If a creditor gives out unsecured credit, beyond the debtors asset, they probably are charging an interest rate that covers such loses for the company.

There are two possible issues, off the top of my head. Any co-signers are instantly responsible for the entire debt they've co-signed for. Any heirlooms or mementos that have value, would be considered part of the estate. If the brother had say a nice watch that a family member wanted they'd have to buy it from the estate.
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  #23  
Old 27 November 2017, 12:51 AM
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I read about the Winter War where the Soviets invaded Finland. Stalin and much of the Soviet military thought it would be a quick and easy rout, but the Finns managed to last longer and the Soviets faced much more resistance than they thought they would. The Soviets did eventually win, but it took longer and had a higher cost than the Soviets originally thought.

There were many factors that gave the Finns the ability to hold back the Soviets, but I heard that one of them, was the cold; the Soviets werenít prepared for how cold things were in Finland. Itís this factor that makes me want to call BS. Russia is the type of country that considers any cold not severe enough to summon a legion of White Walkers, to be shorts weather. Just how cold was it in Finland that the Russians couldnít handle it?
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  #24  
Old 27 November 2017, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Do the creditors just write off any loans or outstanding credit card balances or whatever?
Sue, when my BIL died, the executor had to send a letter to each debtor saying that basically my BIL was dead, but all their requests for payment would be reviewed and any money would be paid out, but there was no money. The creditors were all ok with that.
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  #25  
Old 27 November 2017, 01:12 AM
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As you say, it was just a minor factor among many others. It was an unusually cold winter, sometimes getting below -40. It doesn't matter where you are from, with temps that low it is very difficult to do much of anything. The Finns had the advantage of being on home turf which gave them much greater access to shelter.
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  #26  
Old 27 November 2017, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
There were many factors that gave the Finns the ability to hold back the Soviets, but I heard that one of them, was the cold; the Soviets werenít prepared for how cold things were in Finland. Itís this factor that makes me want to call BS. Russia is the type of country that considers any cold not severe enough to summon a legion of White Walkers, to be shorts weather. Just how cold was it in Finland that the Russians couldnít handle it?
Cold was an issue, but the biggest issue is the terrain. The Karelia is a region of the world that majorly benefits anyone who defends. The grounds are wet enough to prevent armoured or heavy lift from moving easily through the area. In the winter, when that land is frozen, it undulates so much due to the ice and water underground, that it makes it very difficult to advance with vehicles. Add to that the challenges inherent in moving over snow, and you end up with a battle of dismounted soldiers advancing over open terrain against dismounted soldiers in defensive positions with huge, clear fields of fire.

The cold made it very difficult for casualty extraction. So, if soldiers from the Soviet forces were shot, they likely froze to death waiting to get taken back to medical aid.

I worked very closely in Lebanon with a Finnish officer whose family were pushed out of the Karelia during the first Winter War (there were actually 2 fights there). He was very passionate about it and gave me a book in English on the war. Very interesting reading.
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  #27  
Old 27 November 2017, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
On another topic - what happens if someone dies leaving debt?... I've tried to reassure her that this won't happen but, well, can it?
I am not a lawyer. But, we recently went through this with my Grandmother and my father (recently as in during the past decade).

My Grandmother was living in a rented apartment and owned very, very little when she passed (gifted it all away while she was alive so her wishes were met without squabble). She had about $4000ish in debt. It was consumer debt with no collateral. She had a credit card that she used for travel in the years before her passing. My uncle, who was her son, was the executor and saw that the debt was written off with the creditors.

My Dad, when he passed, he lived in a rented place, and had some debt (car loan, taxes payable and a credit card) that totalled about $8000ish. The same uncle was executor, and he tried to get my Dad's debt written off too. But because his estate had money in it (bank accounts, securities, investments) he had to use those to pay off any debts before writing them off. It pissed off my uncle** but my Dad's assets more than paid off the debts.

However, the question I asked the lawyer was that if it was not sufficient to pay off the debts, would my sister and myself be inheriting the debt (as we inherited the majority of his estate). Lawyer said no. We may be forced to sell furniture etc to meet financial obligations of the estate, but if there was not enough to cover the debts, the rest would be absorbed by the creditor.

So, you friend does not have anything to fear from the creditors unless she had cosigned or co-owned some of that debt.

**My cheap uncle was looking at the commission of the estate and having monies disappear from the bank account would mean that he would receive less of a commission. That pissed him off.
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  #28  
Old 27 November 2017, 11:59 AM
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I forgot to mention earlier, but my wife was told by the county Register of Wills that my wife was allowed to keep a few thousand to cover the cost of the funeral and her own expenses as executor while handling her brother's estate, before paying any to the debtors. That was pretty well moot, as it just meant we got to keep literally the clothes her brother had been wearing and his toothbrush (and a bottle and a half of vodka.)
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  #29  
Old 27 November 2017, 12:10 PM
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When my maternal grandfather died back in 1983, he had some debts and didn't have squat. My parents were able to bring back his entire estate--if you want to call it that--in 2-3 black garbage bags. My mother simply wrote to the creditors explaining the situation. She didn't owe anyone anything, and my father said that the creditors would write it off as a loss. No one came after her except the one hospital that tried to ding her father/her for some money. I can still remember the letter my grandfather/mother got from a collection agency: dear Dawn's Grandfather: our records indicate you are gainfully employed....

I'm pretty sure things have changed a lot since then however.
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  #30  
Old 27 November 2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
Cold was an issue, but the biggest issue is the terrain. The Karelia is a region of the world that majorly benefits anyone who defends. The grounds are wet enough to prevent armoured or heavy lift from moving easily through the area. In the winter, when that land is frozen, it undulates so much due to the ice and water underground, that it makes it very difficult to advance with vehicles. Add to that the challenges inherent in moving over snow, and you end up with a battle of dismounted soldiers advancing over open terrain against dismounted soldiers in defensive positions with huge, clear fields of fire.

The cold made it very difficult for casualty extraction. So, if soldiers from the Soviet forces were shot, they likely froze to death waiting to get taken back to medical aid.

I worked very closely in Lebanon with a Finnish officer whose family were pushed out of the Karelia during the first Winter War (there were actually 2 fights there). He was very passionate about it and gave me a book in English on the war. Very interesting reading.
Add to that the fact that flying as low and slowly as possible then having soldiers jump out into what they hoped were snowdrifts was not exactly a well-thought out plan of the Soviet Union. Also, the Finns had some truly lethal biathletes.
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  #31  
Old 27 November 2017, 01:25 PM
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Why does it seem like almost every movie is a remake, sequel, prequel, or off shoot of another movie now days? How many Spiderman movie does there need to be?
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  #32  
Old 27 November 2017, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
The reason I ask is because a friend of mine just lost her brother, her deeply in debt brother, and she's convinced "they" are going to come after her and their parents to meets his debts. I've tried to reassure her that this won't happen but, well, can it?
Legally, the parents and sister have no obligation to pay off the deceased's debts beyond what the estate may cover, unless they are co-signers on the dept. But she is probably correct that some creditors may very well try to come after her or the parents, hoping they will feel obligated and take on the debt. If the creditor can get that to happen, then it can be difficult to reverse, so advise them to be very careful with any conversations they have with any creditors and do not make any agreements to pay off any debt they are not responsible for.

Last edited by iskinner; 27 November 2017 at 02:38 PM.
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  #33  
Old 27 November 2017, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
I'm pretty sure things have changed a lot since then however.
How do you think they've changed?

I ask because debts are personal; unless you're a co-signer, when the person is gone the debt is gone. Which is why estates remain on the hook (they sub in for the person), if there is anything in the estate.

Seaboe
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  #34  
Old 27 November 2017, 03:32 PM
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I've seen that also -- not only merges with any surrounding subdivison developments, but merges with the neighborhood/town/city as a whole. If the subdivision's old enough, it may take a history book, or a really good eye for what often-remodeled old houses originally looked like, to tell that there was once a subdivision development there at all.
Naw, you just have to look at the legal description on your taxes. It will always have the name of the subdivision, even if it doesn't show on any map. The only exception would be if the governing authority allowed the subdivision to be vacated.

In most areas, a subdivision is legally defined in the land standards. The information already posted is correct in that they are normally plots of land that are subdivided into individual lots and developed at the same time. These days, there is usually a coherent scheme to the development. Restrictions as to use of the lots are usually recorded at the time of the initial development.

Home Owners Associations are more common in some areas than in others. They tend to be more common in 'upscale' areas where the initial owners want to keep a tighter control on the development.
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  #35  
Old 27 November 2017, 03:55 PM
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In my case, my legal subdivision appears on street signs and on the deed to my house, but is not generally used. This subdivision is part of a much wider neighborhood. The neighborhood name describes the area accurately and is used both by a facebook group and a neighborhood watch group.
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  #36  
Old 27 November 2017, 05:13 PM
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My neighborhood, a rather large one, is made up of hundreds of generally small 8-12 house subdivisions. When this area was originally developed in the early 20th century, it was divided into generally 5 acre plots that were sold as farm lots.

As the local city grew in this direction, over the years these original 5 acre lots have been subdivided one by one into usually about a dozen homes on a cul-de-sac or small to medium apartment complexes. There are a tiny number of the original larger lots still scattered through the area, a couple of them are currently in the process of being subdivided into new sets of homes as the fill in continues.

Another consequence of having the larger lots is that a number of them have been utilized for group home facilities, a lot of retirement and/or extended care facilities scattered throughout the neighborhood.
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  #37  
Old 27 November 2017, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper of the Mad Bunnies View Post
Naw, you just have to look at the legal description on your taxes. It will always have the name of the subdivision, even if it doesn't show on any map. The only exception would be if the governing authority allowed the subdivision to be vacated.
Huh. I don't know that all our subdivisions even have names. I sit on the planning board which reviews and permits (or doesn't) subdivisions; we sign off (if we do) on a plat map to be filed with the county, which names the owners, and sometimes there's a subdivision name, but I'm pretty sure that there isn't always. Let alone that there was always one in, say, 1930.

This may be a state by state matter. You now have me curious enough that I might ask the town assessor whether that's on the tax maps, though.

But what I meant, mostly, was that in casually driving or walking around the area one wouldn't know that many older subdivisions had once been developments of that sort. I didn't mean that research couldn't determine it. I'd expect such info to show up on title searches, newspapers of record at the time, etc.
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  #38  
Old 30 November 2017, 05:31 PM
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Do cows commonly 'make friends' with other cows such that when they are spread out over a field grazing each day they generally form the same groups?
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  #39  
Old 30 November 2017, 06:46 PM
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Beachlife, I don't know the answer to that, though I think it's more likely than not. But if nobody who does know answers it in the next couple of days, remind me; I know a couple of people I could ask who would know for sure.
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  #40  
Old 30 November 2017, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post
Why does it seem like almost every movie is a remake, sequel, prequel, or off shoot of another movie now days? How many Spiderman movie does there need to be?
I can actually answer this one! It seems like that, because this is when you are living and you don't know the full history of film. The first feature length sequel was made in 1916 - The Fall of a Nation, sequel to The Birth of a Nation. The first remake was in 1905 - The Great Train Robbery was remade after first being filmed in 1904. It comes down to remakes, sequels, prequels, or offshoots are some of the most bankable things in Hollywood, so they've been doing it all along. The norm in Hollywood is to be awash in these things, not to be free of them.
The answer to your last question is 0, as there is no need for any particular movie. But as to how many they will make before deciding it is enough will be as many as they squeeze out before concluding that it is no longer profitable to make one.
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