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  #21  
Old 13 September 2007, 06:21 AM
We'veBeenHad
 
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Ok don't want to get too deep here as I'm totally into cosleeping and also I don't care how people get sleep -sleep is precious and if you need someone else in the room so be it. Had I not been forced onto my own so early and had such cruel parents it might be different for me. Yeah, they were. Cruel. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that some apartment complexes in this state have (or had - haven't checked 'em out lately) that you couldn't share a room with parents or sibling past a certain age. That was a private business decision, not a law. I remember telling a young mom about it and she was horrified "How could they make laws about that?" but it wasn't laws. It was complexes that wouldn't allow certain combinations. Perhaps some of these rules are still in place, I don't know. I remember only a few years ago seeing a doctor from America being absolutely HORRIFIED that some Russian parents and children had to share rooms. I don't think he ever heard of co-sleeping. Either way, he called it an actionable offense in the US for kids to have to share a room, much less with their MY GOD parents. Idiot.
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  #22  
Old 13 September 2007, 06:47 AM
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Forgotten Fay Forgotten Fay is offline
 
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I remeber my mother telling me, that in Illinois, past a certian age, children of diffrent sexes could not sleep in the same rooms. I remeber when we were very young having a "nursey" type room that my borther,sister,and myself shared. But once my brother started school (so about, 5) he had to have his own room.
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  #23  
Old 13 September 2007, 01:05 PM
Christie Christie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by We'veBeenHad View Post
I remember only a few years ago seeing a doctor from America being absolutely HORRIFIED that some Russian parents and children had to share rooms. I don't think he ever heard of co-sleeping. Either way, he called it an actionable offense in the US for kids to have to share a room, much less with their MY GOD parents. Idiot.
Past a certain age I would be horrified if parents were doing this when they had other alternatives. Children deserve privacy. If their parents don't want it, well, that's up to them, but to impose that on their children when there is no need is wrong IMO.
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  #24  
Old 13 September 2007, 02:11 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christie View Post
Past a certain age I would be horrified if parents were doing this when they had other alternatives.
If it's alright for the poor to co-sleep, why is not okay for the rich? I say, leave it up to the individual families on how they setup sleeping arrangements. Keep the government out of the bedroom.
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  #25  
Old 13 September 2007, 02:15 PM
Christie Christie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
If it's alright for the poor to co-sleep, why is not okay for the rich? I say, leave it up to the individual families on how they setup sleeping arrangements. Keep the government out of the bedroom.
And I say, if you have other alternatives than you should pursue them. Unless you genuinely believe that teenagers would be thrilled to be sharing a room with dear old mom and dad. And why the stark choice here between rich and poor? No middle ground for you Doug?
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  #26  
Old 13 September 2007, 02:17 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Originally Posted by Christie View Post
And why the stark choice here between rich and poor? No middle ground for you Doug?
So it's okay for the poor to co-sleep, maybe okay (maybe not) for the middle class, and never for the rich?
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  #27  
Old 13 September 2007, 04:43 PM
FullMetal FullMetal is offline
 
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Why so bitter?

Christie never said that, she said children deserve their privacy, and to be honest they do, if I was forced to share a bedroom with my folks I'd have gone crazy.

That being said, I know several people who co-sleep, and that's fine. I don't see that giving children their own bedroom is cruel in any way shape or form. maybe you can enlighten me. That being said, I think even if children choose to sleep with their parents they deserve their own room and their own bed so that they can sleep alone. or have a refuge where they can have their privacy. and that includes sleep...

so doug, you think that every rich teenager should be forced to sleep in the same room with their parents?

There really seems to be no middle ground for you, it's either an all or nothing. I too would be horrified if after a certain age children were still being forced to sleep with their parents, when there were alternatives.

Co-sleeping is fine until a certain age, at which point the children, and the parents deserve their privacy as well. Which is the key reason parents voluntarily stop cosleeping. not because they're cruel, not because they don't love their children, just people need their space, they need their privacy. and I hate to break it to you, but if parents only ever coslept with their children, every couple would only ever really have the opportunity to have one...

it's hard to be intimate when you're in the same room as your child.
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  #28  
Old 13 September 2007, 04:48 PM
Christie Christie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
So it's okay for the poor to co-sleep, maybe okay (maybe not) for the middle class, and never for the rich?
Uh huh. That's exactly what I said.

Quote:
And I say, if you have other alternatives than you should pursue them. Unless you genuinely believe that teenagers would be thrilled to be sharing a room with dear old mom and dad. And why the stark choice here between rich and poor? No middle ground for you Doug?
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  #29  
Old 13 September 2007, 04:50 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Originally Posted by FullMetal View Post
so doug, you think that every rich teenager should be forced to sleep in the same room with their parents?

There really seems to be no middle ground for you, it's either an all or nothing. I too would be horrified if after a certain age children were still being forced to sleep with their parents, when there were alternatives..
I didn't know that's what I wrote.

Oh wait, I didn't:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
I say, leave it up to the individual families on how they setup sleeping arrangements. Keep the government out of the bedroom.
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  #30  
Old 13 September 2007, 05:15 PM
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Hero_Mike Hero_Mike is offline
 
 
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I had several friends who shared bedrooms (but not beds) with their brothers, for at least some part of their childhood. Nobody liked it, even if the age difference was small (and they both had the same interests), or they had the older brother with lots of cool stuff (but the older brother usually wanted to be left alone).

Never have I known children of different gender to share a bedroom once past the toddler stage, at least not from any of my schoolmates. I'm sure it happens among the poor, but the usual minimum for any family was a 3-bedroom house - separating the kids by gender. This, of course, causes friction when you have 2+1 kids of differing gender, and two share a room only because they are the same gender. "Mom - why does Lucy get her own bedroom, while me and my brother have to share - she's younger than us too?"

This is not to say that by having chlidren of opposite gender share a room, that they end up like those in "Flowers in the Attic" (sexual curiosity leads to incestuous relationship between teen brother and sister), but that it causes problems. I feel that children should have their privacy and their own space, however, at the same time, I believe that the modern trend for children to not need to share "common space" with siblings, causes problems. In the same way that "only children" were considered to be spoiled, today's kids often grow up in a house hold where they need not share a bathroom, television, telephone line, computer, etc., with siblings or even parents. This doesn't mean they are no longer entitled to their privacy at the personal level - but what kind of adult will you have, when as a child they are taught that there are no boundaries? Having no privacy of your own means that you ignore the privacy of others. If all your formative years, you know that at any time, your older brother will peek in your dresser drawer or read your diary, how would you develop any sense of respect for the privacy of others, once you are an adult?

As for the "poor" getting a pass on this, that's just the way it is. We do not, as a society, judge a single mother on social assistance to be "unfit" if she cannot provide a private school education for her children. But, on the other hand, society would expect that a loving, caring, and capable parent would not deny their children all the "advantages" they can provide - and we would expect a millionaire (or even someone who is solidly upper-middle-class - professionals like professors or doctors) to provide this for their children. I can understand that there may be some good reasons and extenuating circumstances for this, but raising children in some kind of arbitrary hardship is a social experiment bordering on abuse. I can even hear the justification used by a parent - "I only bought one change of clothes for young Jimmy so he can learn humility" - while they dress themselves in Ralph Lauren and Prada. Having children share a bedroom when another empty room is available - I see no good justification for that. This isn't even about moving to a different house - just allocating the space you have.
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  #31  
Old 14 September 2007, 03:50 PM
Christie Christie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
I didn't know that's what I wrote.

Oh wait, I didn't:
You also said:

Quote:
If it's alright for the poor to co-sleep, why is not okay for the rich? I say, leave it up to the individual families on how they setup sleeping arrangements.
In response to a post where I was specifically talking about older children.

So where to you draw the line Doug? If the "poor" are only able to provide value village clothing for their children should the "rich" follow suit? If the "poor" can't afford to give their kid a bike then the "rich" shouldn't do that either? How about food? If the "poor" are dining on hot dogs and baked beans than the "rich" shouldn't be offering their children anything more than that? Basically I guess even if they have plenty of money at their disposal they shouldn't spend it on their kids?

Sure.
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  #32  
Old 14 September 2007, 04:39 PM
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imjustasteph imjustasteph is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christie View Post
You also said:



In response to a post where I was specifically talking about older children.

So where to you draw the line Doug? If the "poor" are only able to provide value village clothing for their children should the "rich" follow suit? If the "poor" can't afford to give their kid a bike then the "rich" shouldn't do that either? How about food? If the "poor" are dining on hot dogs and baked beans than the "rich" shouldn't be offering their children anything more than that? Basically I guess even if they have plenty of money at their disposal they shouldn't spend it on their kids?

Sure.

I don't believe that's what Doug is saying. His is more like, the rich shouldn't be forbidden to have kids co-sleep. You are interpreting him (it seems) to be saying something more like, rich should be forced to have kids co-sleep.

In your analogies, that would be more like him saying rich people shouldn't be forbidden to shop at Goodwill, eat hot dogs and beans, or be without bicycles.

There's a long line between saying someone should have to do x and someone shoudn't be forbidden to do x.
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  #33  
Old 14 September 2007, 04:45 PM
Christie Christie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by imjustasteph View Post
I don't believe that's what Doug is saying. His is more like, the rich shouldn't be forbidden to have kids co-sleep. You are interpreting him (it seems) to be saying something more like, rich should be forced to have kids co-sleep.

In your analogies, that would be more like him saying rich people shouldn't be forbidden to shop at Goodwill, eat hot dogs and beans, or be without bicycles.

There's a long line between saying someone should have to do x and someone shoudn't be forbidden to do x.
Doug's comment was in response to me saying:

Quote:
Past a certain age I would be horrified if parents were doing this when they had other alternatives. Children deserve privacy. If their parents don't want it, well, that's up to them, but to impose that on their children when there is no need is wrong IMO.
Why he seems to feel compelled to defend parents who do not respect their children's right to privacy is a mystery to me - but this is not the first thread he has done this in. If it were I'd be inclined to agree with your interpretation.
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  #34  
Old 14 September 2007, 04:53 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Originally Posted by Christie View Post
Why he seems to feel compelled to defend parents who do not respect their children's right to privacy is a mystery to me .
Yea, it's a mystery to me to how you can jump from what I wrote to that conclusion too.
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  #35  
Old 16 September 2007, 03:55 AM
inkiemouse
 
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According to my mother, I was never much for sleeping in my parents' bed when I was little, even when I had a nightmare.
But my younger sister slept in their bed almost every night until she started kindergarten.

Two nights out of eight, our father worked overnight, so either my sister or myself would get to sleep with our mom (usually it was my sister). One night, my mom was out of town with friends, and my sister asked if she could sleep in our parents' bed with our father. He said, "No, it isn't right for girls to sleep with their dads like that."
She was still young and didn't quite understand, hence she was pretty disappointed.

Not really the same thing, but I think it's more an ethical or moral matter than a legal one.
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  #36  
Old 17 October 2007, 11:35 AM
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Lancastrian Lancastrian is offline
 
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Seems to me that this "law" stems from an idea that sleeping in the same room is tatamount (or will automatically lead to) sex. Not so much.

Also, Christie you seems to prize your privacy (Judging from her comments, and if I'm assuming, I'm sorry.) and that's fine. You wouldn't want to have to share a room with your parents, and hey, neither would I. But that doesn't mean other people agree or would be against it. If it works for others (And I do mean the whole family including the kids), they should be free to choose such an arrangement no matter what their income level.
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  #37  
Old 17 October 2007, 11:47 AM
Zachary Fizz Zachary Fizz is offline
 
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I can't begin to understand why anyone would sleep in the same room as their children if they could help it. Little Fizz and Baby Sherbet both wake up before I do, and as soon as they are awake it's jabber, jabber, jabber, babble, babble, babble. I love them dearly, but at six in the morning, not so much. Thank goodness for very thick, steel reinforced concrete walls.
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  #38  
Old 17 October 2007, 02:07 PM
Christie Christie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancastrian View Post
Seems to me that this "law" stems from an idea that sleeping in the same room is tatamount (or will automatically lead to) sex. Not so much.

Also, Christie you seems to prize your privacy (Judging from her comments, and if I'm assuming, I'm sorry.) and that's fine. You wouldn't want to have to share a room with your parents, and hey, neither would I. But that doesn't mean other people agree or would be against it. If it works for others (And I do mean the whole family including the kids), they should be free to choose such an arrangement no matter what their income level.
I'm not interested in what the adults in a situation want. They hold the cards so to speak as there is no law (despite the many times this subject comes up), what I am interested in is how children and teenagers would feel about sharing a room with their parents or with other siblings if there are other rooms in the house that could be used for bedrooms. I don't think most would appreciate it. Still, as there is no law (repeat, there is no law) parents can pretty much do what they want, can't they?
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  #39  
Old 17 October 2007, 02:11 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Originally Posted by Zachary Fizz View Post
I can't begin to understand why anyone would sleep in the same room as their children if they could help it. Little Fizz and Baby Sherbet both wake up before I do, and as soon as they are awake it's jabber, jabber, jabber, babble, babble, babble. I love them dearly, but at six in the morning, not so much. Thank goodness for very thick, steel reinforced concrete walls.
Sleeping in a separate room didn't help for us. They would just come in when they woke up and sit on our bed and babble....

Of course, they usually stayed in their room (we had them all in one room), so they learned Mommy & Daddy were not fun at 5 AM, so they would talk to each other.
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  #40  
Old 17 October 2007, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christie View Post
I'm not interested in what the adults in a situation want. They hold the cards so to speak as there is no law (despite the many times this subject comes up), what I am interested in is how children and teenagers would feel about sharing a room with their parents or with other siblings if there are other rooms in the house that could be used for bedrooms. I don't think most would appreciate it. Still, as there is no law (repeat, there is no law) parents can pretty much do what they want, can't they?
I know there's no law, that's why I wrote "law" in quotation marks. Perhaps I should have made that more clear, and I apologize.

And as I wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancastrian View Post
If it works for others (And I do mean the whole family including the kids)
I thought it was fairly clear I was not simply addressing the parent's feelings on this subject. Let me say it again: If the entire family, parents, teens, other kids, whatever, do not have a problem with such an arrangement and no actual laws are being broken, who cares how they choose to live?
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