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  #1  
Old 28 April 2018, 05:54 PM
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Default Lynching memorial leaves some quietly seething:

"Let sleeping dogs lie."

Quote:
Black men were lynched for “standing around”, for “annoying white girls”, for failing to call a policeman “mister”. Those are just a few of the horrific stories on display at a new national memorial to lynching victims in Montgomery, Alabama.

One mile away, another historical monument tells a very different tale about the American south: the First White House of the Confederacy celebrates the life of “renowned American patriot” Jefferson Davis, who served as the president of the Confederate states, while making virtually no mention of the hundreds of black people he and his family enslaved.

“It’s going to cause an uproar and open old wounds,” said Mikki Keenan, a 58-year-old longtime Montgomery resident, who was eating lunch at a southern country-style restaurant a mile from the memorial. Local residents, she said, feel “it’s a waste of money, a waste of space and it’s bringing up bullshit”.The contradictions of Montgomery’s historical narratives were on full display this week as thousands of tourists and progressive activists flocked to the city to mark the opening of the country’s first memorial to lynching victims – while some locals quietly seethed, saying they resented the new museum for dredging up the past and feared it would incite anger and backlash within black communities.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ly...z&ocid=U007DHP

Guess we can see who's really in favor of politically correct revisionist history.
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  #2  
Old 28 April 2018, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
“It’s going to cause an uproar and open old wounds,”
When there's a festering infection under an old wound, opening it is necessary.
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  #3  
Old 28 April 2018, 09:32 PM
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You win the analogies.
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  #4  
Old 29 April 2018, 04:22 PM
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I don't suppose longtime resident Mikki Keenan is black. It's awfully rich to complain about the opening of old wounds that aren't yours.
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  #5  
Old 29 April 2018, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
When there's a festering infection under an old wound, opening it is necessary.
They don't care because they don't see it as a white wound. To them, those are the only ones that matter. Any other wounds, "Just move on, get over it already", rinse and repeat.

MG
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  #6  
Old 29 April 2018, 07:00 PM
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That's why they think the wound is closed in the first place. They don't think they're bleeding from it.

They're wrong, of course. The whole country is. But, in their case, the nerve connections aren't there, so they don't feel it.
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  #7  
Old 30 April 2018, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
“It keeps putting the emphasis on discrimination and cruelty,” chimed in her friend, who asked not to be named for fear that her child would disapprove of her remarks. The memorial, she added, could spark violence
Italics mine.
So she knows it's wrong and her children will disapprove, but she's gonna say it anyway, dangit!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
I don't suppose longtime resident Mikki Keenan is black. It's awfully rich to complain about the opening of old wounds that aren't yours.
Quote:
Keenan, who is Native American, said she would never visit the memorial and was worried it would exacerbate “racism” in Montgomery
She's not black...
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  #8  
Old 30 April 2018, 03:11 PM
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Glasses

Alarm, seriously, you're saying the opinions of a Native American--who almost certainly faces a lot of racism, and whose people have faced attempted genocide--are irrelevant because she's not black?

Seaboe
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  #9  
Old 30 April 2018, 03:26 PM
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I didn't get that from Alarm's post at all. What am I missing?
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  #10  
Old 30 April 2018, 03:31 PM
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Just because you're a person who's been victimized by racism doesn't automatically mean that you're not racist against someone else.
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  #11  
Old 30 April 2018, 06:34 PM
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Glasses

I agree. Perhaps I read into your response something that you didn't intend, but it sure struck me that you were saying "she's not black so she can't possibly understand." I think that's probably true for a lot of racial groups; I don't think Native Americans are one of them.

Seaboe
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  #12  
Old 30 April 2018, 10:12 PM
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Native Americans do not know what it's like to be black in America*. They know what it's like to be Native American in America.
(*Unless they are both Native American and black)

And even with that, there are variations. People who "pass" have very different experiences with racism than people who outwardly are black or Native American or any other color or nationality other than "white".

Ms. Keenan may or may not present as Native American. She may or may not be familiar with her nation and the history of her people. It doesn't sound like she's spent much, if any, time on a reservation as a "long time Montgomery resident". She may or may not have experienced racism to any great degree. She may have had none and she may have experienced it every single day.

But she still doesn't know what it's like to be black every day.

That doesn't mean she isn't allowed to have an opinion, and she may definitely have more insight than I into how it feels to be discriminated against and what systematic racism against an entire group of people is like. But an article just saying that she's Native American doesn't necessarily give her a pass on her feeling that
Quote:
“it’s a waste of money, a waste of space and it’s bringing up bullshit"
without question.
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  #13  
Old 30 April 2018, 10:40 PM
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I wouldn't normally judge or care, but I have to maintain some skepticism about the person claiming Native American ancestry, given the context and how many white people in the US claim it based on a great great grandparent allegedly being Native American. Based on her social media profile (unless there is someone else in the same area with the same unusual name and approximate age), she and her family appear very white, and they all have European names.

Given that she was interviewing about how she thought an African-American anti-racist memorial made her uncomfortable, if she was then asked a question about her ethnicity, she would be highly motivated to pull out the 1/32nd Native American card as a way of deflecting. I can't be racist against black people if a distant relative I've never met may or may not be something other than white.
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  #14  
Old 01 May 2018, 12:57 AM
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Having spent way too much time 'researching' her, I would say if Keenan is anything, but a white, probably red-neck, its not apparent in anything she says or does.
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  #15  
Old 01 May 2018, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
I agree. Perhaps I read into your response something that you didn't intend, but it sure struck me that you were saying "she's not black so she can't possibly understand." I think that's probably true for a lot of racial groups; I don't think Native Americans are one of them.

Seaboe
It seems to me that Alarm was just clarifying a point for Esprise Me.

As for what race Keenan actually is: does it matter? It's not like black conservatives who hold the same views don't exist, and regardless she's just plain wrong.
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  #16  
Old 01 May 2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
Alarm, seriously, you're saying the opinions of a Native American--who almost certainly faces a lot of racism, and whose people have faced attempted genocide--are irrelevant because she's not black?

Seaboe
I was specifically replying to Esprise Me, who asked if she was black, by pointing out that the answer was in the article.
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  #17  
Old 01 May 2018, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarm View Post
I was specifically replying to Esprise Me, who asked if she was black, by pointing out that the answer was in the article.
I think you're probably right that they would have mentioned it, but it is possible to be Black and Native American. So in a strict sense, the article is inconclusive on the point.

(Also, on gut feeling, I agree with Errata and beachlife, so even the quoted statement from the article is dubious.)
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  #18  
Old 01 May 2018, 02:27 PM
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Glasses

Thank you, St. Alia, that was a wonderful response, and I appreciate it.

I live in a white, middle class world, and I always have. I am very aware that I do not understand the experience of any other ethnic group in life and society.

I happen to think the lynching memorial is a wonderful idea, well executed, but my personal experience begins and ends with how it makes me feel to listen to Ethel Waters sing Suppertime.

Seaboe
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  #19  
Old 01 May 2018, 03:54 PM
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Or Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit.
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  #20  
Old 02 May 2018, 08:30 AM
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Thanks, St. Alia, that's sort of what I was trying to say with my snarky one-liner, but you phrased it much more eloquently. I very much doubt Ms. Keenan has experienced life as a Naive American, but even if she had, it wouldn't make the wounds left by our shameful history of lynching hers to claim. Her comments suggest a belief that black people having feelings about how they've been treated is just as bad as white people treating them that way, which is a distressingly common unspoken attitude among gaslighting racists. And yes, she'd still be wrong about this even if she were black, but it takes some stones to oppose justice for another and pretend you're looking out for them.
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