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  #21  
Old 04 May 2018, 12:47 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
I know there’s no point in ranking prejudices, but there are times I wonder if the wider culture doesn’t hate women more than any other group.
John Lennon and Yoko Ono thought so.

ETA: Language warning
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  #22  
Old 04 May 2018, 06:04 PM
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E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
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I'm always reluctant to get into the subject, since I certainly qualify, in a technical sense, as "involuntarily celibate." And there are things I resent about the structure of society that I think are contributing factors in that status, though they are hardly the fault of women (or at least certainly not all the fault of women, even collectively, let alone as individuals). And while I never thought I was particularly ugly (or particularly handsome, either), I did go through a period in my younger days of sometimes suspecting that there was something obviously wrong with me that the women I knew were aware of but for some reason wouldn't tell me. (These days, I admit, I occasionally wonder if I just smell wrong -- irrespective of how recently I've bathed -- but that's probably not it, either.)

Of course, the problem for me isn't so much the "can't get laid" issue -- I probably could if that was all I wanted -- as the "can't find an actual long-term romantic partner" problem. I can say that I miss emotional support and cuddling a lot more than I miss sex. (I can take care of my own orgasms, thank you. Hugging yourself or your pillow is a lot less satisfying.) And I could give you a long list of reasons, some of which are due to my having some conditions that are pretty hard to meet, but mostly having to do with being basically an introvert with extreme shyness/social anxiety. Hell, I haven't really made a new friend of any variety in over a decade, and these days my urges to go out at all are very low and infrequent.

But the train of logic that leads from that kind of isolation to doing harm to others is pretty well lost on me. So is using it as an excuse to hate or be dismissive of women. (Of course, I have a conflict in that I think women are treated horribly in all sorts of ways while desperately wishing I were one. People don't make sense.)

So, I will admit to getting a little bit irritated when people are dismissive and over-generalize about men who can't get laid; but I sure as hell don't want to be associated with these jerks.
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  #23  
Old 04 May 2018, 06:25 PM
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Lainie Lainie is offline
 
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Here's something we're bad at admitting, as a society: Not everyone finds a partner. More people than you think spend much, or most, or all of their adult lives without a partner. I'm in the "most" category; my last partner was my abusive ex-h, and we've been divorced for 22 years.

Maybe if we acknowledged this, and stopped talking about people who "can't get dates" or are "40 and alone" as if they are flawed to point of unlovability, or have "given up," etc. etc., people like you and me would stop wasting time, and stop hurting themselves, with the belief that something is wrong with them.
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  #24  
Old 04 May 2018, 06:48 PM
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Alarm Alarm is offline
 
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people who think that "everyone has a soulmate", don't seem to think about the fact that nothing in that statement says your soulmate has to live in the same general vicinity, (or even timeline; there was even a movie about this!)
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  #25  
Old 04 May 2018, 06:50 PM
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Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
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Just the other day, I saw a facebook meme that started out "every woman" and ended "either married or gave birth to."

My response was much more tepid than my feelings--I just commented "every woman?" However, I thought the meme was dreadfully insulting not just to single women, but to those who choose to be childless or have partners they choose not to marry.

Seaboe
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  #26  
Old 04 May 2018, 07:32 PM
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E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Here's something we're bad at admitting, as a society: Not everyone finds a partner. More people than you think spend much, or most, or all of their adult lives without a partner. I'm in the "most" category; my last partner was my abusive ex-h, and we've been divorced for 22 years.

Maybe if we acknowledged this, and stopped talking about people who "can't get dates" or are "40 and alone" as if they are flawed to point of unlovability, or have "given up," etc. etc., people like you and me would stop wasting time, and stop hurting themselves, with the belief that something is wrong with them.
Well, there's plenty wrong with me. But generally, yes.

I know people who have gone a long time between relationships. Some of them seem OK with it; at least one actively and emphatically never wants to be in one. And a few seem a bit disappointed, but more or less resigned to it. I'm none of the above, though, and it doesn't stop hurting.

But that is of course no reason for hurting other people.

(Where I admit it can be infuriating is when you see people who seem objectively to just be terrible human beings, who seem to have no trouble finding and/or maintaining relationships. Why for example does any woman get or stay married to a man who makes a career in part out of opposition to women's rights? ....because people are complicated and strange, and not always in a good way, I suppose....)
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  #27  
Old 04 May 2018, 07:49 PM
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Lainie Lainie is offline
 
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FWIW, it took me a long time and a lot of work to get to "disappointed, but resigned." It's more than "a bit," even now, and I lose grip on resignation from time to time. And FTR, I never said it stopped hurting.
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  #28  
Old 04 May 2018, 08:47 PM
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thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Here's something we're bad at admitting, as a society: Not everyone finds a partner.
This.

And the reasons may just be a matter of bad timing. Some people can potentially fit well with more people than others. Some people who have limited numbers of potential fits -- which does not mean that there's anything wrong with them -- will nevertheless succeed in stumbling upon somebody they fit with -- and in doing so when said person is themselves single and of suitable age. Others won't.

Not to mention that there are those who take partners who they don't fit with well at all, or even who aren't worth much of anyone's fitting with, and continue on in a state of lengthly misery which looks at least to me much worse than staying alone.

Some of us who wind up alone regret it mildly but are mostly pretty happy -- it does have its advantages. Others remain in significant pain over it. And there are undoubtedly some people who have no pain on the issue (other than that caused by society's assumptions) because they never wanted to be partnered in the first place.

None of that has all that much to do with sex. Plenty of people get laid but have no partners, or have partners but for one reason or another no sex, especially if one looks at the whole length of the partnership. And I strongly suspect that nearly all people who are unwillingly celibate could get laid, if they didn't care at all who they got laid with, or what the other circumstances were. Finding a long term partner is a different matter, and much harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
People don't make sense.
That is certainly true.

Or, at any rate, the kind of sense that people make is often not logical; and people's a-logical reasons for doing things are not all based on the same sort of sense.
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  #29  
Old 05 May 2018, 01:51 AM
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Gutter Monkey Gutter Monkey is offline
 
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I decided about a decade ago to stop trying to find a partner. I'd had a few relationships (some worked out well and ended mutually, some less so) but I went through a long lonely patch and it was causing me anxiety and depression and at one point I went "Why am I putting myself through this? Why am I letting this one thing which is mostly outside my control affect my life so much?" and decided to opt out of the system entirely.

It was a sad decision but ultimately incredibly freeing. Every now and then I'll go through a lonely period but they never last that long.

A few years ago my parents starting nagging me and my brother for grandchildren and we had to turn around and go "Hey, you guys did a terrible job of raising us and this is the result, deal with it."
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  #30  
Old 29 May 2018, 04:31 AM
atimnie atimnie is offline
 
 
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8 Things Wrong with the Incels Movement

1. They idolize murderers and terrorists
From the YouTuber who posted a rambling manifesto before shooting up a college, to the guy driving into a crowd, these punks just love the destruction in the name of their cause.

2. It's not even a proper cause
It's just a bunch of whiny crybabies complaining about how they can't get laid. Well boo freaking hoo, no one said you had the right to get laid.

3. They think they have a god given right to get laid, and they hate women for denying them that right
See explanation for 2.

4. They are a small minority making rational incels look bad
Lanie, Taft... okay, myself too... we are not the loonies, and we would prefer to distance ourselves from that form of extremism.

5. They are hypocrites
The main complaint among incels is they can't get laid because women find them unattractive, yet they will body shame a woman on her mobile swiping left on Tinder. They say they are being judged on their looks, yet they do the exact same thing.

6. They seem to have no idea what Tinder is
Or have no desire to use it, they'd just rather bitch about the situation than do something about it.

7. Sexism
It's not my fault, it's all these women. When you look at what some women wind up marrying, I think we can safely say, it's your fault.

8. Inferiority/superiority complex
I didn't think it was possible, but these jerks manage to be self pityingly inferior and egotistically superior at the same time.

I think the rational incels should start a counter movement. RINSE, Rational Incels, Not Sexist Egoists
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  #31  
Old 04 June 2018, 02:00 PM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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Paul Joseph Watson weighed in last week. He spent three minutes almost sounding smart, only to burn all that with characteristic blaming of leftists and third-wave feminists and the usual conspiracy theory boogeymen. I’m really not sure that helps.

What I find amusing is that one of the articles he cited was one written by one David Futrelle (if someone wants to find it, please do. I’m too preparing-for-a-blood-test to really focus here. Plus I’m on my phone). Futrelle does follow Paul on Twitter, but only in the “observation” sense.
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