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  #1  
Old 27 April 2018, 02:58 PM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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Default We need to talk about incels

David Futrelle does it exceptionally well.

Of course, I, being a long time reader of We Hunted The Mammoth, knew that.

From the article:
Quote:
If these young men aren't stopped, there will be more horrors like what we saw this week in Toronto, if not worse. In the forums on incel hangout Incels.me, some are already hailing Minassian as a hero, and looking forward to the next wave of incel terror attacks. “[W]e're the real victims,” declares one forum regular who has contributed more than 5,000 comments since joining the site last November. “It's time we fought back.”
While both sites linked above are fine, be warned that the latter contains a lot of posts about people who hail everyone from Alek Minassian to Omar Mateen as heroes (killing people for the crime of being “normies”, or, in the latter case…). Fortunately for us, all links are archive.is (earlier ones are DoNotLink).

As far as incels go…there’s not much else I can really say…other than still finding the term “redpill” hilarious.
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  #2  
Old 27 April 2018, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
incel culture tells young men that their problems are unfixable — that they are simply too ugly for anyone to ever love.
Is this new? The last time I was reading about this (or a similar movement) the problem was that women were only interested in bad boys and/or superficial things like what car a man drove.
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  #3  
Old 27 April 2018, 04:28 PM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Is this new? The last time I was reading about this (or a similar movement) the problem was that women were only interested in bad boys and/or superficial things like what car a man drove.
Not really, but it kind of faded into the background after Isla Vista, to be supplanted by people whining about remakes of unmanly comedy movies and sequels to super-manly actioners.
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  #4  
Old 29 April 2018, 05:42 AM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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So I did some digging, and found this doco from 2011.

It was reviewed favourably by Magdalen from Super Princess Tea Party.
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  #5  
Old 29 April 2018, 09:30 AM
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Blow Your Top

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Is this new? The last time I was reading about this (or a similar movement) the problem was that women were only interested in bad boys and/or superficial things like what car a man drove.
PUAs/redpillers believe that women can be tricked into have sex with them if they treat them a certain way, some incels might also believe that (with caveats) but some go a slightly different path and believe that women are only interested in looks and physical traits therefore there's nothing they can ever do to get laid.

The rabbit hole goes much much deeper. Here's a brief primer if you want to venture a little further: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Manosphere_glossary
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  #6  
Old 29 April 2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Gutter Monkey View Post
some go a slightly different path and believe that women are only interested in looks and physical traits therefore there's nothing they can ever do to get laid.
An hour or two spent noticing actual people with small kids at, say, the local big box or grocery store ought to convince anybody that people (of whatever gender) of all sorts of looks and physical traits manage to have sex.
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  #7  
Old 29 April 2018, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
An hour or two spent noticing actual people with small kids at, say, the local big box or grocery store ought to convince anybody that people (of whatever gender) of all sorts of looks and physical traits manage to have sex.
Yeah, but they tell themselves "oh, he/she was desperate" or "he/she is loaded" or frankly anything that reassures them that their life-view is 100% accurate.
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  #8  
Old 29 April 2018, 05:04 PM
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I agree this is related to the "nice guys finish last" mindset. A lot has been written about why that's misogynistic bullshit, so maybe this newer generation decided to move the goalposts.
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  #9  
Old 29 April 2018, 05:46 PM
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I suppose for some people it's easier to think 'I can't get laid because I'm not tall enough' than to think 'I can't get laid because I'm acting like an ass'. The second thought implies that one ought to do something about it. The first allows just sitting there and complaining.

ETA: Even people who aren't acting like asses often can't get laid with specific other people, of course. But one way in which they don't act like asses is that they move on without overt hard feelings.
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  #10  
Old 30 April 2018, 02:36 AM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
I agree this is related to the "nice guys finish last" mindset. A lot has been written about why that's misogynistic bullshit, so maybe this newer generation decided to move the goalposts.
Just a note: the URL should be http://heartless-bitches.com/rants/n...Misogyny.shtml
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  #11  
Old 30 April 2018, 02:48 AM
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Thanks! Not sure how I messed that up, but that is indeed the right link.
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  #12  
Old 30 April 2018, 02:51 AM
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My reply to all those so-called Nice Guys™, is a quote from The Social Network. I have not seen the movie nor do I plan to, but it is a good quote.

Quote:
Erica Albright: You are probably going to be a very successful computer person. But you're going to go through life thinking that girls don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that that won't be true. It'll be because you're an asshole.
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  #13  
Old 03 May 2018, 01:34 AM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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I started following a bunch of sensible people on Twitter (you know, Futrelle, Shaun, Hbomb, Contra, Mara Wilson and the like?), and they inevitably pointed me to this article, where a strange manosphere meme tries to compare “Stacy” (the ideal woman, probably a model and not interested in these guys. Also, those monster platforms are going to cause huge problems) to “Becky” (who looks kind of like Ellen Page on an off day? What, she’s out and instantly way less cute?).
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  #14  
Old 03 May 2018, 01:51 AM
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This morning I checked checked an old message forum I was on for several years. Since I left, the place has become overrun by incels and 4channers (but I repeat myself). The people who run the site aren't part of that crowd, but they appointed a moderator who was and he proceeded to abuse his authority and bullied or banned anyone who tried reporting the trolls.

The owner doesn't understand why so many of the old members are gone now.
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  #15  
Old 03 May 2018, 01:58 PM
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Doesn't the owner of the site ever read the site?
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  #16  
Old 03 May 2018, 05:19 PM
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He mostly doesn't- he's an indie game developer and the forum exists primarily for fans of the game. He brought in moderators so that he could spend less time managing the forum (which he doesn't get paid for) and more time on game development (which he does). And I think he was too credulous of their freeze peach argument.
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  #17  
Old 03 May 2018, 05:55 PM
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Do frozen peaches go well with whirled peas?
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  #18  
Old 03 May 2018, 06:36 PM
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Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
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GenYus, I suspect not.

Seaboe
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  #19  
Old 04 May 2018, 01:57 AM
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Clicked on the link in Jusenkyo’s post. The first paragraph alone makes me go, “Seriously?!”

Quote:
Incel, the online community of “involuntarily celibate” men radicalized by their shared mistrust of women, has existed on the internet for years. But it wasn’t until Monday, when a man drove a van down a street in Toronto and killed 10 people, that many people knew of its existence.
Actually plenty of people knew about the scourge of incels and MRAs: women.

We have been talking about this toxic subculture on the Internet for years, stepping up our rhetoric with GamerGate. Women have long talked talked about how being a woman on the Internet, can be pretty dangerous, just as being a woman out in the world is often dangerous. It’s something we’re expected to live with and deal with amongst ourselves, because to ask the wider culture to care about the problems that women face, is simply unthinkable.

Since mass killers, regardless of the means they use to carry out their crimes, tend to invariably have domestic violence charges on their record, the larger culture’s willingness to ignore issues facing women, is truly appalling. Battered spouses, girlfriends, or children, are the canaries in the coal mines when it comes to these assholes.

More and more, I wonder if the only problem with James Tiptree, Jr.’s “The Screwfly Solution,” is how plausible it is. Many of these women-hating jagoffs, probably are willing to kill women without being aided by an alien plague.

This quote from another Tiptree story, The Women Men Doesn’t See,” also feels apt.

Quote:
Women have no rights, Don, except what men allow us. Men are more aggressive and powerful, and they run the world. When the next real crisis upsets them, our so-called rights will vanish like—like that smoke. We'll be back where we always were: property. And whatever has gone wrong will be blamed on our freedom, like the fall of Rome was. You'll see."
I know there’s no point in ranking prejudices, but there are times I wonder if the wider culture doesn’t hate women more than any other group.
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  #20  
Old 04 May 2018, 04:51 AM
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Saying that people were not aware of incels existence is really code for "we didn't give a NFBSK about them until they started hurting us instead of people we didn't care about."
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