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Old 23 April 2018, 07:43 PM
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Default Waffle House shooting suspect captured after 4 slain

The suspected gunman in the Waffle House shooting near Nashville, Tennessee, that left four dead was captured Monday afternoon, authorities said.

The gunman killed two men outside the restaurant before firing through the window, entering the crowded establishment and killing two others. At least four people were injured, including two left in critical condition.

He fled the business after patron James Shaw Jr., 29, confronted him and took his gun during a tussle, threw it over a counter and forced the gunman outside.

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2018/04/23...pect-arrested/

(I edited to omit the shooter's name, but of course it's all over the article. I thought it better to include the name of the hero who stopped him.)
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  #2  
Old 23 April 2018, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
(I edited to omit the shooter's name, but of course it's all over the article. I thought it better to include the name of the hero who stopped him.)
Darn, I was going to comment how impressed I was with the article's tact in doing that. Thanks all the same.
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  #3  
Old 23 April 2018, 08:57 PM
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That Waffle House is 3 miles from my house. I drive by it all the time.
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  #4  
Old 23 April 2018, 10:08 PM
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It's always scary when there's a murder close to home like that.
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  #5  
Old 23 April 2018, 10:22 PM
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Yep. Come to think of it, I ate at that location about a month ago. He could just as easily picked then to do it.

It was tense knowing he was on the loose so close to my neighborhood.
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  #6  
Old 24 April 2018, 06:02 AM
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We should be able to eat waffles in peace ó but Trump and the NRA accept this kind of terrorism

Quote:
Thereís a word for all this: terrorism. People donít like to use that word when it comes to guns and Americans, and some will argue these shootings canít be acts of terrorism because they lack a singular political aim. But thereís an overarching political aim in deeming this violence acceptable: Protect the gun industry at all costs.
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Old 24 April 2018, 11:28 AM
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I'm sure you've all heard by now that this Piece of Work was caught trespassing on the White House last summer, once thought that Taylor Swift was stalking him, and once took a swim in a neighbor's pool while wearing a pink dress. (IIRH*) Apparently the father was told to take POW's guns away from him, which he did....but eventually gave them back?!

Some of the callers on yesterday's Local Talk Show were justifying the father's returning the guns. Which seems to me to be undermining their whole 'people with mental illness shouldn't have guns' stance. No, the mentally ill should not have guns/access to guns period, and IMO the father is responsible for this tragedy. I don't care if the suspect was over 18--a psych condition changes everything. I said as much in a text I sent to the host.

All that said, I think that the waffle house should tell Hero that as long as he lives in the area, his money is no good at their place--his meals (and his meals alone) are on the house.

*If I Remember Hearing.
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  #8  
Old 24 April 2018, 12:30 PM
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I know, right? To think that Taylor Swift was stalking him, when it's obvious she wants me.

Seriously, I believe I read that the police in Illinois did take his guns away and forbid him from possessing them, but did give them to his father (apparently they can be released to a family member under certain circumstances) who was admonished not to give them back to him....which he then did. If that's right, I hope his father is prosecuted to whatever extent is possible.

Of course, he was forbidden to posses guns in Illinois, but the shooting took place in Tennessee, and he probably was not actually forbidden from possessing them there.
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Old 24 April 2018, 12:56 PM
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Although I am not by any means a pro-gun type of person, I am somewhat conservative on the issue of mental health and guns. From my limited understanding, it is difficult for someone who had one serious mental health incident - but is now considered as stable as you or me - to successfully appeal if denied the ability to purchase firearms. If I'm allowed to own guns (I don't) then that person should have the same right.

Which is why I am compelled to say there is something seriously wrong with the fact that this guy - a person who demonstrated repeatedly that he's mentally unstable and has a precarious grip on reality - had these weapons in his possession. The father certainly had something to do with it, but couldn't there have been more done?

A side issue: The White House incident involved him being "in a restricted area" near the White House. What exactly does that mean? Are there actually places that you can easily just walk into, but shouldn't? Or is this just a first-layer security area where you go to state your business and are told to leave if you have no business there?
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Old 24 April 2018, 12:57 PM
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Rats! I keep forgetting that two states are involved!
Here's an updated article.
I hope the father is charged with something.
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  #11  
Old 24 April 2018, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
the mentally ill should not have guns/access to guns period[ . . . ]--a psych condition changes everything.
Doesn't it depend on the illness/condition?

Certainly it doesn't sound as if this particular person should have had access to guns, even without 20/20 hindsight being needed. But AIUI there are plenty of people with illnesses that don't make them either violent, or subject to the sort of delusions that can cause violence.

And there are plenty of sane people, or at least people defined as sane by any current method, who are violent.
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Old 24 April 2018, 10:59 PM
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Default Waffle House gunman's troubles began years before attack

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Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
Seriously, I believe I read that the police in Illinois did take his guns away and forbid him from possessing them, but did give them to his father...who was admonished not to give them back to him....which he then did.




According to this article, he did it twice.


http://www.startribune.com/waffle-house-gunman-s-troubles-began-years-before-attack/480731791/
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  #13  
Old 25 April 2018, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasFink View Post
Although I am not by any means a pro-gun type of person, I am somewhat conservative on the issue of mental health and guns. From my limited understanding, it is difficult for someone who had one serious mental health incident - but is now considered as stable as you or me - to successfully appeal if denied the ability to purchase firearms. If I'm allowed to own guns (I don't) then that person should have the same right.
I do think that it's important to distinguish what kind of mental illness we're talking about. I suffer from chronic depression, which might make me a suicide risk (I've never been suicidal, but obviously it's a valid concern for depressed people in general), but I don't think it makes me any more of a danger to others than most mentally "healthy" people. And in fact, as has often been pointed out, people with mental health issues are generally much more likely to be the victims of violent crime than the perpetrators of it.

I also worry about the medical privacy issue. While I believe mental health professionals are required (or at least allowed) to notify the authorities if they think a patient presents a clear danger to others, I don't know exactly where one draws the line there.

Finally, I worry that very strict laws prohibiting anyone with any kind of mental health issues from owning guns would discourage many people from seeking needed mental health care; many might well rather continue to suffer the effects of the illness thank risk a diagnosis that would have their guns taken away, or their right to acquire new ones suspended.

None of this means I think we shouldn't look for ways to prevent people like this shooter from possessing guns, but it does illustrate some of the difficulties; and also perhaps highlights some of the reasons that focusing on mental illness alone will not solve the issue of gun violence. It's just turned into a convenient dodge for people wanting to avoid the issue of gun control, and is particularly hypocritical coming from representatives of a party that loves nothing better than to cut government funding from helping people pay for health care.
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  #14  
Old 25 April 2018, 06:15 AM
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Also, mental health issues are all too often brought up as a smokescreen to deflect talk from strengthening gun-control regulations. Especially if the suspected shooter was white.
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  #15  
Old 25 April 2018, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
I do think that it's important to distinguish what kind of mental illness we're talking about. I suffer from chronic depression, which might make me a suicide risk (I've never been suicidal, but obviously it's a valid concern for depressed people in general)...
All of the above.

The form one fills out when buying a gun asks "Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution[emphasis in original]?" Answering yes basically means no guns for you.

The instructions detail what the question means. The adjudication can mean "A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority, that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or others... [and includes] a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case[emphasis mine]." Committed to a mental institution is "A formal commitment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority."

I believe that a "lawful authority" could be medical authorities. So, if someone is suffering from depression - even temporarily due to a tragic event - and has a bad reaction to meds leading to an episode of suicidal action and a short term commitment, or if someone is found not guilty of a crime by reason of temporary insanity (which again could be due to very specific causes unlikely to be repeated) they are forever denied the right to bear arms.

As I've said, I'm not a fan of guns and wouldn't mind it if gun laws were tightened. But this antiquated way of looking at mental illness is not the way to make things safer.
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  #16  
Old 25 April 2018, 02:39 PM
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The one bright thing that this tragedy did was introduce the world to James Shaw Jr.

The world needs more people like James Shaw Jr.

Not only did he wrestle with the shooter. He has set up a crowd funding appeal to help the families of the victims.

He's a touch of class in an otherwise horrifying situation.
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  #17  
Old 25 April 2018, 05:33 PM
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UEL, should there be a link there? I see blue text, but can't click.
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  #18  
Old 25 April 2018, 09:08 PM
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And, as I've seen pointed out, he keeps insisting he's not a hero -- which is, of course, exactly the sort of thing a real hero would say.
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  #19  
Old 25 April 2018, 09:19 PM
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I hope the father gets charged with some serious crimes for giving the shooter back his guns.
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  #20  
Old 25 April 2018, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
And, as I've seen pointed out, he keeps insisting he's not a hero -- which is, of course, exactly the sort of thing a real hero would say.
https://youtu.be/rW8fDw8VzKI?t=14
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