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  #1  
Old 06 March 2018, 03:41 AM
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Neener, Neener Former Trump aide unloads on Mueller subpoena, refuses to cooperate

Former Trump campaign adviser Sam Nunberg is refusing to comply with a subpoena order issued by special counsel Robert Mueller, as part of the grand jury's probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election. Nunberg told the Washington Post on Monday that he was asked to appear before the grand jury on Friday but does not intend to appear or to provide documents.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/former-...-to-cooperate/
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  #2  
Old 06 March 2018, 04:07 AM
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Well, that's not going to work out well for him.
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Old 06 March 2018, 05:36 AM
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Is a subpoena like that enforcable? I suspect yes, but how? Will he get fined? Or jailed until he appears? And what if he appears, but only says "I don't remember" to every question?
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Old 06 March 2018, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Enrico View Post
Is a subpoena like that enforcable? I suspect yes, but how? Will he get fined? Or jailed until he appears?
He could be arrested, made to appear, charged with contempt, fined and imprisoned. It depends on how far he wants to take it, and how motivated the prosecutors are.

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Originally Posted by Don Enrico View Post
And what if he appears, but only says "I don't remember" to every question?
If you're obviously saying it to everything it would likely be perjury, and the more you use that, the more obvious it becomes. It can be a very hard type of perjury to prove, but if they really want to go down that road it may be possible. The investigators probably already have a lot of the evidence that they would ask him about, and he doesn't know for sure exactly what they know. If they can pull out evidence demonstrating many instances of him recently communicating about some of the many things he claimed not to remember, they could make a strong case that he perjured himself. Which is itself a serious crime, over and above any of the things they might be investigating him for.
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Old 06 March 2018, 07:22 AM
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On the advice of counsel I invoke my Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and respectfully decline to answer your question.
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Old 06 March 2018, 07:29 AM
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On the advice of counsel I invoke my Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and respectfully decline to answer your question.
That's not how that works. He's not being asked to testify against himself on charges against himself. There may be charges against him at some point, but that's not what he's being subpoena'd for. Plus, he the Fifth Amendment doesn't protect you from a subpoena that compels you to preserve documents, which is the main thing that he claimed he will not comply with. They probably have a number of the documents he's being asked about anyway, but he's being given enough rope to hang himself.

Last edited by Errata; 06 March 2018 at 07:39 AM.
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  #7  
Old 06 March 2018, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Enrico View Post
Is a subpoena like that enforcable?
If it's a subpoena, it's enforceable. Special prosecutors have subpoena power.

ETA: I thought Damian was making a joke, like he was refusing to answer Don Enrico's question.
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  #8  
Old 06 March 2018, 01:09 PM
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Nunberg: HELL NO, I WON'T GO!!

Reminds me of a recent newbie to the evening shift at the dog park: this puppy will not get into the car when it's time to go. He lays down in the parking lot and no amount of gentle tugging at the leash will get him to move. The owners' explanation is that he does not like car rides, so hopefully the puppy will associate rides with fun when he's older. Still funny to see this puppy committing civil disobedience. At least he's small enough to be picked up.
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Old 06 March 2018, 01:18 PM
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In reading the news this morning, I guess once he sobered up and realised what he had done, he started backtracking and will "probably" cooperate with the subpoena.

I see his lawyer getting a good grip on the situation.

But a lot of genies are now out of the bottle.

I have a vibe where Nunberg feels like he is being set up as a patsy, and he is screaming "If I'm goin' down, I'm taking you all down with me!!!!"
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Old 06 March 2018, 01:20 PM
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Nunberg: Let 'im arrrest me!
Lawyer: He will, you know.
Nunberg: What?
Lawyer: Arrest you. Put you in jail.
Nunberg: For realsies? Screw that.
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  #11  
Old 06 March 2018, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
Still funny to see this puppy committing civil disobedience. At least he's small enough to be picked up.
I suspect that Nunberg will also find that he's small enough to be picked up.
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  #12  
Old 06 March 2018, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Errata View Post
That's not how that works. He's not being asked to testify against himself on charges against himself. There may be charges against him at some point, but that's not what he's being subpoena'd for.
You can plead the Fifth even if you are not the defendant:

Quote:
During a criminal trial, the Fifth Amendment pertains to more individuals than just the defendant. For example, a witness may refuse to testify if doing so would have him or her self-incriminate, even if the criminal conduct in question is not related to the actual case. The rules are a bit different with witnesses because they can be ordered by the court to provide testimony through the issuance of a subpoena. However, a witness can begin to testify and then raise the Fifth Amendment if a particular question may implicate him or her.
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Old 06 March 2018, 01:45 PM
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He still can't use the Fifth Amendment to avoid the subpoena, which I think was Errata's point. If he was joking, that's moot, of course.
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Old 06 March 2018, 01:56 PM
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I wonder if his attitude has been encourage by Trump as a way of testing the waters with Mueller to see just how far they would be willing to go is someone refuses to cooperate. If that's the case Mueller needs to make sure he give a strong message to the WH that he isn't kidding around!
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  #15  
Old 06 March 2018, 02:10 PM
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Assuming damian wasn't joking, I think that was Numberg's hypothetical response to questioning from Mueller not refusing to answer the subpoena since it says he refuses to answer "the question". Sort of like NFL player Marshawn Lynch who reported to a mandatory press conference only to answer every question with "I'm here so I won't get fined."
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  #16  
Old 06 March 2018, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I wonder if his attitude has been encourage by Trump as a way of testing the waters with Mueller to see just how far they would be willing to go is someone refuses to cooperate. If that's the case Mueller needs to make sure he give a strong message to the WH that he isn't kidding around!
Having seen this guy's interviews on MSNBC in the past, I sort of doubt it. There was nothing unusual, at least for him, about his appearances on the news channels yesterday. Most of his interviews are disjointed and rambling. In an interview last year on MSNBC's "The Beat with Ari Melber", he didn't even wait to be introduced before he started talking.

~Psihala
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  #17  
Old 06 March 2018, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
It's not just a blanket right to never testify on anything you don't feel like testifying about. There has to be some way that it might actually incriminate you. This guy does not at this time appear to even be in all that much legal peril except for the hole he is digging himself by being uncooperative. He was off the campaign very early on. If he keeps pleading the Fifth on everything, the judge can determine that it doesn't apply and hold him in contempt if he continues not to testify.
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  #18  
Old 06 March 2018, 05:34 PM
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Fifth Amendment invocations are likely off the table. In the article, it said that Nunberg said that Mueller "offered" him immunity, but he refused.

It doesn't work that way. If it's possible that a grand jury witness might refuse to testify on 5th Amendment grounds, one way to cut that off is to formally grant immunity for that testimony. That takes away the 5th Amendment shield, and puts the person under the compulsion of the subpoena. The person does not have to agree to receive immunity -- the prosecutor can just grant it. At that point, refusal to answer is subject to being held in contempt.

And I agree with the earlier discussion on perjury. When it comes to what is inside a person's head, we have 2 main types of evidence: what they've said, and circumstantial evidence. If you were on a jury for someone charged with perjury and there was evidence that 1) the person openly said they would refuse to cooperate or testify, made statements asserting that some things did or did not happen (indicating memories of those events) and mocked the idea of being arrested; 2) upon being hauled into court to testify, provided non-answers like "I don't recall" to any substantive question. Would it be a big leap to figure that 2) is the new tactic for accomplishing the purpose of non-cooperation stated in 1), and that the person has not really forgotten everything they claim, but is instead lying?
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  #19  
Old 06 March 2018, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
It's not just a blanket right to never testify on anything you don't feel like testifying about. There has to be some way that it might actually incriminate you.
I never said it was. In fact the section I quoted specifically said that the testimony had to implicate the witness. I was countering your claim that a witness doesn't have Fifth Amendment protections if they are not on trial.
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