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  #1  
Old 12 October 2016, 06:44 PM
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Default Limbaugh: The Left Sends Out "The Rape Police" Whenever There's Sex With "No Consent"

Quote:
You can do anything, the left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent.
https://mediamatters.org/video/2016/...wn-rape/213787
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  #2  
Old 12 October 2016, 06:54 PM
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Indeed. How awful of us.
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  #3  
Old 12 October 2016, 07:03 PM
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We send out "The Theft Police" whenever there is transfer of goods or money without consent.
We send out "The Assault Police" whenever there is bodily harm committed without consent.
It almost seems like there are a number of events that aren't crimes if everyone involved is willing to engage in the event.

I would point out to Mr Limbaugh that the whole issue behind the Wells Fargo issue is that the accounts were opened without informed consent. But he's probably 100% behind Wells Fargo because money.
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Old 12 October 2016, 08:10 PM
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Wow, I wish we had Rape Police who showed up whenever consent wasn't granted. That sounds like my kind of superpower.
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Old 12 October 2016, 09:10 PM
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I really fail to understand how anyone could think consent is a bad thing, but then I remember this is the 'Baugh who idealizes solipsism and a world where no one else's wants or needs matter but his own. You know, that, and he makes money for saying these things.
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  #6  
Old 12 October 2016, 09:43 PM
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Remember, in Conservativeland, women think that filing a rape report is a super-fun thing that they do just for a whim because they don't like some dude and want to get him in trouble.
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Old 12 October 2016, 10:26 PM
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I remember this coming up with the Duggar case, how there seemed to be a major disconnect in understanding why some sex acts are bad. To many of the hard core religious/conservative crowd, sex is divided into boxes labeled 'God-approved' and 'sinful/icky stuff'. Josh Duggar was wrong not because he assaulted underage girls in his power without their consent, but because he was weak and performed an act outside of God-sanctioned marriage.

It's like they can't comprehend how people could be fine with things buried deep in God's 'no' box while still having rules of their own (or, you know, a basic right to your own body). I wonder how many of these people struggle not to assault people and feel like it's just a personal battle not to sin. I wonder how many of them genuinely think that wanting to do something to a person without his/her consent is a normal 'battle' everyone faces, on par with not masturbating, having pre-marital sex, or being attracted to people of the same sex. It's like they're not able to look beyond their concept of what's good and bad to understand why consent is the only rule that matters.

It shows up in how many people think that's Trump's words were bad because he said a naughty word and talked about sex, not because he talked about using his power to take it.

If I ever met someone who read what Limbaugh said without saying 'yeah, of course that's how it works,' I'd want to stay far, far away from them.
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  #8  
Old 12 October 2016, 11:19 PM
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Just reading the quote, it did seem possible to me that what he's complaining about isn't that people think consent is necessary, but that people think consent is sufficient.

But when I watched the clip, the tone of contempt in his voice when he talked about consent was . . . uugh.

I do think he really doesn't understand the difference between "different standards" and "no standards", though.

-- and the claim at the beginning of the story that only Republicans ever get accused of hypocrisy is nonsense. Even if we're only talking about sexual hypocrisy: what about the Eliot Spitzer scandal? I heard plenty of Democrats accusing him of hypocrisy.



ETA: in case there's any doubt: I think consent is sufficient; though I think it needs to come also from anybody that any of the people involved have made relevant promises to, even if they're not involved in the act. But I think that most others who think consent is sufficient think this also.

Last edited by thorny locust; 12 October 2016 at 11:30 PM.
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  #9  
Old 13 October 2016, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quink View Post
I remember this coming up with the Duggar case, how there seemed to be a major disconnect in understanding why some sex acts are bad. To many of the hard core religious/conservative crowd, sex is divided into boxes labeled 'God-approved' and 'sinful/icky stuff'. Josh Duggar was wrong not because he assaulted underage girls in his power without their consent, but because he was weak and performed an act outside of God-sanctioned marriage.

It's like they can't comprehend how people could be fine with things buried deep in God's 'no' box while still having rules of their own (or, you know, a basic right to your own body). I wonder how many of these people struggle not to assault people and feel like it's just a personal battle not to sin. I wonder how many of them genuinely think that wanting to do something to a person without his/her consent is a normal 'battle' everyone faces, on par with not masturbating, having pre-marital sex, or being attracted to people of the same sex. It's like they're not able to look beyond their concept of what's good and bad to understand why consent is the only rule that matters.

It shows up in how many people think that's Trump's words were bad because he said a naughty word and talked about sex, not because he talked about using his power to take it.
Slacktivist wrote a very good post saying the same thing.

I am getting so damn tired of people acting like consent is some form of highly advanced mathematics or something so alien that mere mortals cannot be expected to understand it. So here's a primer:

If she/he says No or does anything that causes you to question whether they want it, STOP. It doesn't matter what you've done thus far or how much money you've spent, STOP.

If someone is falling-down, black-out drunk or flat-out passed-out due to his/her alcohol consumption, keep an eye on him/her and maybe call an ambulance if needed, but at no point do you need to do anything with his/her sexual organs or your sexual organs.

Consent, mothereffers, it's not that hard to get!
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  #10  
Old 13 October 2016, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
If someone is falling-down, black-out drunk or flat-out passed-out due to his/her alcohol consumption, keep an eye on him/her and maybe call an ambulance if needed, but at no point do you need to do anything with his/her sexual organs or your sexual organs.
If someone's been drinking but hasn't reached the passing-out level yet, you still don't need to do anything with their or your sexual organs. If there's any question about their level of intoxication, unless you're already in a sexual relationship with them the correct response is to wait until they're sober. In the unlikely scenario that they get mad at you, you're better off for not having done anything with them anyway.
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  #11  
Old 13 October 2016, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
If someone's been drinking but hasn't reached the passing-out level yet, you still don't need to do anything with their or your sexual organs. If there's any question about their level of intoxication, unless you're already in a sexual relationship with them the correct response is to wait until they're sober. In the unlikely scenario that they get mad at you, you're better off for not having done anything with them anyway.
I feel like that's what pro-rapists, for lack of a better term, get angry with. It's not like the good old days where all you had to do was get a woman liquored up for a lay, and they think that's not fair. I mean, now they have to do other things to actually convince the person to want have sex with them?

I wonder if on some subconscious level, some of these folks know how unappealing and off-putting they are and are aware of how difficult it would be to persuade someone to honestly want to go to bed with them. So instead of being like "Hey, maybe I should try not being a horrible person that other people go out of their way to avoid being close to," they think they have to rely on other "cheats" instead.

Last edited by mbravo; 13 October 2016 at 07:54 PM.
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  #12  
Old 13 October 2016, 08:45 PM
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I don't think it is even that nuanced for some. They buy into the myth that they will be convicted of rape because the woman had 1 glass of wine at dinner and the next morning decides that she shouldn't have had sex.
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  #13  
Old 13 October 2016, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbravo View Post
I wonder if on some subconscious level, some of these folks know how unappealing and off-putting they are and are aware of how difficult it would be to persuade someone to honestly want to go to bed with them. So instead of being like "Hey, maybe I should try not being a horrible person that other people go out of their way to avoid being close to," they think they have to rely on other "cheats" instead.
From my own dealings with them, a lot of it is a sense of entitlement. They feel that they're entitled to sex and get made at any suggestion that no, it is not something that's owed to them is the fault of the man-hating feminazis and their castrated male supporters.
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Old 14 October 2016, 12:26 AM
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That's like those awful police who arrest so-called pickpockets every time they borrow someone's wallet without permission. WTF
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  #15  
Old 14 October 2016, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbravo View Post
I really fail to understand how anyone could think consent is a bad thing
I guess after a few alt-right meme cycles, "consent" will be another bugbear like "political correctness", "diversity", "social justice", "feminism", etc, etc.
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  #16  
Old 14 October 2016, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbravo View Post
I wonder if on some subconscious level, some of these folks know how unappealing and off-putting they are and are aware of how difficult it would be to persuade someone to honestly want to go to bed with them. So instead of being like "Hey, maybe I should try not being a horrible person that other people go out of their way to avoid being close to," they think they have to rely on other "cheats" instead.
You may not have meant it that way, but I think it's a mistake to asssume that everyone who behaves like this is obviously unappealing and off-putting. Some people who seem perfectly fine at first appear to either have that sense of entitlement -- 'people are supposed to want to bed me! so if this one's reluctant I'll just get her drunk' possibly combined with an assumption either that women don't generally want sex, or that women do generally want sex but are socialized to say that they don't.

(That last one is partly, though not entirely, true -- but what's being missed is that one major reason why women who are physically interested may say no anyway is because they either don't trust the specific man, or don't trust men in general. And the reason for that is this consent-is-silly attitude.)
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  #17  
Old 14 October 2016, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
If she/he says No or does anything that causes you to question whether they want it, STOP. It doesn't matter what you've done thus far or how much money you've spent, STOP.

If someone is falling-down, black-out drunk or flat-out passed-out due to his/her alcohol consumption, keep an eye on him/her and maybe call an ambulance if needed, but at no point do you need to do anything with his/her sexual organs or your sexual organs.

Consent, mothereffers, it's not that hard to get!
I agree completely. But crocoduck shows that there are subtleties:
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
If someone's been drinking but hasn't reached the passing-out level yet, you still don't need to do anything with their or your sexual organs. If there's any question about their level of intoxication, unless you're already in a sexual relationship with them the correct response is to wait until they're sober.
While there certainly are some self-entitled assholes who think that "No" means "Yes", at least as far as they are concerned, the majority of people understand perfectly well that "No" means "No."

But many men feel they're now being told "Well, sometimes 'yes' means 'no' as well and you can go to jail if you can't tell the difference."
Also it seems the message is that woman is not responsible for her actions while drunk and her consent doesn't count while a man's consent does and could be considered rape. (Personally, I'm offended that people still accept the idea of men "taking advantage" of women, as if sex is something women give and men take).
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  #18  
Old 14 October 2016, 04:43 PM
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A lot of date rape starts by getting the woman drunk.

It's not subtle or hard to figure out: if there's a question of sobriety, don't. You're not actually being hurt if you miss a chance where you could possibly have had sex. Also, just because someone comes on to you doesn't require you to have sex with them. Consent is a two-way street.
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  #19  
Old 14 October 2016, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
A lot of date rape starts by getting the woman drunk.
Are you saying women are mentally deficient in some way that they are not responsible for their own drinking?* Nobody ever talks about getting a man drunk.

Quote:
It's not subtle or hard to figure out: if there's a question of sobriety, don't.
Are you saying drunken, but coherent, consent doesn't count? And what if both parties are drunk?


*misleading a person about how strong the drinks are is different story.
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  #20  
Old 14 October 2016, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
Are you saying women are mentally deficient in some way that they are not responsible for their own drinking?* Nobody ever talks about getting a man drunk. *snip*


*misleading a person about how strong the drinks are is different story.
How is that a different story? What if a person is new-ish to drinking and doesn't know their limitations, as is often the case on college campuses? Being responsible for one's own drinking goes as far as their own actions, not the actions of others to them when they are drunk.

In any case, this is a derailment. Though people getting men drunk in order to take advantage of them can and does happen (and is utterly wrong), research by the Department of Justice shows that it doesn't happen anywhere near the extent to men preying on women using alcohol (10% of rape victims is male). And heavy drinking by men has been associated with higher likelihood of committing sexual assault (Abbey, Ross, and McDuffie, 1994; Koss and Dinero, 1988, Seto an Barbaree, 1997).

Quote:
Are you saying drunken, but coherent, consent doesn't count? And what if both parties are drunk?
I cannot answer for c_h, but my guess is the answer would be exactly what was stated: If there is any question about the consent (for whatever reason including drunkenness) don't. This way, the worst that could happen is that someone who wanted to have sex with someone else will have to wait until they sober up.
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