snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Soapbox Derby

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04 May 2018, 01:47 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
I know there’s no point in ranking prejudices, but there are times I wonder if the wider culture doesn’t hate women more than any other group.
John Lennon and Yoko Ono thought so.

ETA: Language warning
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04 May 2018, 07:04 PM
E. Q. Taft's Avatar
E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
Join Date: 30 July 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,302
Default

I'm always reluctant to get into the subject, since I certainly qualify, in a technical sense, as "involuntarily celibate." And there are things I resent about the structure of society that I think are contributing factors in that status, though they are hardly the fault of women (or at least certainly not all the fault of women, even collectively, let alone as individuals). And while I never thought I was particularly ugly (or particularly handsome, either), I did go through a period in my younger days of sometimes suspecting that there was something obviously wrong with me that the women I knew were aware of but for some reason wouldn't tell me. (These days, I admit, I occasionally wonder if I just smell wrong -- irrespective of how recently I've bathed -- but that's probably not it, either.)

Of course, the problem for me isn't so much the "can't get laid" issue -- I probably could if that was all I wanted -- as the "can't find an actual long-term romantic partner" problem. I can say that I miss emotional support and cuddling a lot more than I miss sex. (I can take care of my own orgasms, thank you. Hugging yourself or your pillow is a lot less satisfying.) And I could give you a long list of reasons, some of which are due to my having some conditions that are pretty hard to meet, but mostly having to do with being basically an introvert with extreme shyness/social anxiety. Hell, I haven't really made a new friend of any variety in over a decade, and these days my urges to go out at all are very low and infrequent.

But the train of logic that leads from that kind of isolation to doing harm to others is pretty well lost on me. So is using it as an excuse to hate or be dismissive of women. (Of course, I have a conflict in that I think women are treated horribly in all sorts of ways while desperately wishing I were one. People don't make sense.)

So, I will admit to getting a little bit irritated when people are dismissive and over-generalize about men who can't get laid; but I sure as hell don't want to be associated with these jerks.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04 May 2018, 07:25 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,505
Default

Here's something we're bad at admitting, as a society: Not everyone finds a partner. More people than you think spend much, or most, or all of their adult lives without a partner. I'm in the "most" category; my last partner was my abusive ex-h, and we've been divorced for 22 years.

Maybe if we acknowledged this, and stopped talking about people who "can't get dates" or are "40 and alone" as if they are flawed to point of unlovability, or have "given up," etc. etc., people like you and me would stop wasting time, and stop hurting themselves, with the belief that something is wrong with them.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04 May 2018, 07:48 PM
Alarm's Avatar
Alarm Alarm is online now
 
Join Date: 26 May 2011
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 5,758
Default

people who think that "everyone has a soulmate", don't seem to think about the fact that nothing in that statement says your soulmate has to live in the same general vicinity, (or even timeline; there was even a movie about this!)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04 May 2018, 07:50 PM
Seaboe Muffinchucker's Avatar
Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
Join Date: 30 June 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18,826
Glasses

Just the other day, I saw a facebook meme that started out "every woman" and ended "either married or gave birth to."

My response was much more tepid than my feelings--I just commented "every woman?" However, I thought the meme was dreadfully insulting not just to single women, but to those who choose to be childless or have partners they choose not to marry.

Seaboe
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04 May 2018, 08:32 PM
E. Q. Taft's Avatar
E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
Join Date: 30 July 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,302
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Here's something we're bad at admitting, as a society: Not everyone finds a partner. More people than you think spend much, or most, or all of their adult lives without a partner. I'm in the "most" category; my last partner was my abusive ex-h, and we've been divorced for 22 years.

Maybe if we acknowledged this, and stopped talking about people who "can't get dates" or are "40 and alone" as if they are flawed to point of unlovability, or have "given up," etc. etc., people like you and me would stop wasting time, and stop hurting themselves, with the belief that something is wrong with them.
Well, there's plenty wrong with me. But generally, yes.

I know people who have gone a long time between relationships. Some of them seem OK with it; at least one actively and emphatically never wants to be in one. And a few seem a bit disappointed, but more or less resigned to it. I'm none of the above, though, and it doesn't stop hurting.

But that is of course no reason for hurting other people.

(Where I admit it can be infuriating is when you see people who seem objectively to just be terrible human beings, who seem to have no trouble finding and/or maintaining relationships. Why for example does any woman get or stay married to a man who makes a career in part out of opposition to women's rights? ....because people are complicated and strange, and not always in a good way, I suppose....)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04 May 2018, 08:49 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,505
Default

FWIW, it took me a long time and a lot of work to get to "disappointed, but resigned." It's more than "a bit," even now, and I lose grip on resignation from time to time. And FTR, I never said it stopped hurting.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04 May 2018, 09:47 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Here's something we're bad at admitting, as a society: Not everyone finds a partner.
This.

And the reasons may just be a matter of bad timing. Some people can potentially fit well with more people than others. Some people who have limited numbers of potential fits -- which does not mean that there's anything wrong with them -- will nevertheless succeed in stumbling upon somebody they fit with -- and in doing so when said person is themselves single and of suitable age. Others won't.

Not to mention that there are those who take partners who they don't fit with well at all, or even who aren't worth much of anyone's fitting with, and continue on in a state of lengthly misery which looks at least to me much worse than staying alone.

Some of us who wind up alone regret it mildly but are mostly pretty happy -- it does have its advantages. Others remain in significant pain over it. And there are undoubtedly some people who have no pain on the issue (other than that caused by society's assumptions) because they never wanted to be partnered in the first place.

None of that has all that much to do with sex. Plenty of people get laid but have no partners, or have partners but for one reason or another no sex, especially if one looks at the whole length of the partnership. And I strongly suspect that nearly all people who are unwillingly celibate could get laid, if they didn't care at all who they got laid with, or what the other circumstances were. Finding a long term partner is a different matter, and much harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
People don't make sense.
That is certainly true.

Or, at any rate, the kind of sense that people make is often not logical; and people's a-logical reasons for doing things are not all based on the same sort of sense.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05 May 2018, 02:51 AM
Gutter Monkey's Avatar
Gutter Monkey Gutter Monkey is offline
 
Join Date: 13 December 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,101
Icon105

I decided about a decade ago to stop trying to find a partner. I'd had a few relationships (some worked out well and ended mutually, some less so) but I went through a long lonely patch and it was causing me anxiety and depression and at one point I went "Why am I putting myself through this? Why am I letting this one thing which is mostly outside my control affect my life so much?" and decided to opt out of the system entirely.

It was a sad decision but ultimately incredibly freeing. Every now and then I'll go through a lonely period but they never last that long.

A few years ago my parents starting nagging me and my brother for grandchildren and we had to turn around and go "Hey, you guys did a terrible job of raising us and this is the result, deal with it."
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 29 May 2018, 05:31 AM
atimnie atimnie is offline
 
 
Join Date: 21 June 2014
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4
Default

8 Things Wrong with the Incels Movement

1. They idolize murderers and terrorists
From the YouTuber who posted a rambling manifesto before shooting up a college, to the guy driving into a crowd, these punks just love the destruction in the name of their cause.

2. It's not even a proper cause
It's just a bunch of whiny crybabies complaining about how they can't get laid. Well boo freaking hoo, no one said you had the right to get laid.

3. They think they have a god given right to get laid, and they hate women for denying them that right
See explanation for 2.

4. They are a small minority making rational incels look bad
Lanie, Taft... okay, myself too... we are not the loonies, and we would prefer to distance ourselves from that form of extremism.

5. They are hypocrites
The main complaint among incels is they can't get laid because women find them unattractive, yet they will body shame a woman on her mobile swiping left on Tinder. They say they are being judged on their looks, yet they do the exact same thing.

6. They seem to have no idea what Tinder is
Or have no desire to use it, they'd just rather bitch about the situation than do something about it.

7. Sexism
It's not my fault, it's all these women. When you look at what some women wind up marrying, I think we can safely say, it's your fault.

8. Inferiority/superiority complex
I didn't think it was possible, but these jerks manage to be self pityingly inferior and egotistically superior at the same time.

I think the rational incels should start a counter movement. RINSE, Rational Incels, Not Sexist Egoists
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04 June 2018, 03:00 PM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
Join Date: 11 May 2003
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2,047
Default

Paul Joseph Watson weighed in last week. He spent three minutes almost sounding smart, only to burn all that with characteristic blaming of leftists and third-wave feminists and the usual conspiracy theory boogeymen. I’m really not sure that helps.

What I find amusing is that one of the articles he cited was one written by one David Futrelle (if someone wants to find it, please do. I’m too preparing-for-a-blood-test to really focus here. Plus I’m on my phone). Futrelle does follow Paul on Twitter, but only in the “observation” sense.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 31 August 2018, 01:20 AM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
Join Date: 11 May 2003
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2,047
Default

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/8...tary-celibacy/
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 31 August 2018, 02:48 AM
Beejtronic's Avatar
Beejtronic Beejtronic is offline
 
Join Date: 28 November 2007
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 2,388
Default

Jusenkyo no Pikachu, please see this post for the guidelines for posting news articles, particularly the first two points:

Quote:
1) Unless the headline is unrepresentative of the article's contents, set the subject line of your thread/post to be the same as the article's headline. This makes it easier for other posters to find the article by searching thread titles and thus eliminate multiple postings of the same article.

2) Your post should begin by quoting a representative topic sentence or paragraph from the article, something that provides other posters with a good idea of the subject of the article without their having to click through to read it.
Despite the fact that we no longer seem to have mods to enforce the rules, following these guidelines makes it much easier for your fellow posters to follow and engage with your posts.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 31 August 2018, 02:49 AM
Mouse's Avatar
Mouse Mouse is offline
 
Join Date: 11 July 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,456
Mouse

First of all, welcome to the board, atimnie. So long as you're not a jerk and are willing to engage in honest debate, you'll fit in just fine here. Enjoy your virtual welcome wagon basket.

Thing is, though, while your post makes many good points, I quibble with the phrase "rational incel." Usage of the word "incel" still seems to imply that being romantically involved with someone is the default and not being in a relationship, is something abnormal and wrong. Also the word "involuntary," while I don't think it is your intention, it feels like it is conveying the idea that not getting laid is the fault of society.

Now if you want some kind of group for young single guys to hang out, maybe just call it a Singles' Group and stay away from the word "incel" which has so much toxic baggage.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 31 August 2018, 04:01 AM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
Join Date: 11 May 2003
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejtronic View Post
Despite the fact that we no longer seem to have mods to enforce the rules, following these guidelines makes it much easier for your fellow posters to follow and engage with your posts.
Yeah, sorry about that one. I actually did want to quote it but was pressed for time and was not in a place where I could properly multitask.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 28 September 2018, 05:53 AM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
Join Date: 11 May 2003
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2,047
Default

I’m bumping this thread because ICYMI, they have a new hero

Quote:
“It’s really not surprising to see incels embrace a guy they — or at least most of them — think is a sexual predator (and who probably is one),” Futrelle tells MEL. “As jealous as incels are of ‘Chads,’ they believe rape and other forms of sexual assault are appropriate forms of ‘retribution’ against girls and women who they assume would never date the likes of them.”
Futrelle continues: “These incels realize that in high school Kavanaugh was precisely the sort of guy they’d denounce as a Chad, but the fact is that incels hate ‘Stacys’ far more.”

[...]

“I suspect that most incels who are fans of Kavanaugh are fans not because they think he really was a virgin, but because they think he did indeed sexually assault the sort of girls they call Stacys,” Futrelle adds. “That is, popular girls who incels think need to be knocked down a peg or two, violently if necessary.”
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Manosphere_glossary
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Girl talk Thing 1 SLC 462 15 August 2018 01:55 PM
Pillow Talk crescent Fun House 0 16 December 2016 06:06 PM
If our pets could talk, what would the say? DawnStorm Fun House 40 12 July 2016 07:05 PM
Talk Like A Grizzled Prospector Day GenYus234 SLC 10 24 January 2014 04:46 PM
Crows can talk snopes Old Wives' Tales 2 02 July 2013 05:07 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.