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  #141  
Old 23 June 2018, 04:55 AM
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Richard W, just a few posts back at post 124, I contrasted the US system vs a Parliamentary system like Canada's.

The reason I was questioning the factual accuracy of the election claim is that it was not actually a foregone conclusion that Hitler would be Chancellor as head of the party with the most seats in the Reichstag. My understanding is that he lost an election against Hindenburg for the presidency (which is a different position). His party won about 37% of the seats in the June 1932 election, but it was about 100 short of a majority of 305. It was unable to form a coalition, and no other party formed a majority coalition. The prior Chancellor stayed in place, and.new elections were called.

In the November elections, Hitler's party lost ground, holding only 33% of the seats, and it was something like 90 seats shy of a majority.

Again, no.party could form a majority coalition. Hindenburg did not want to appoint Hitler. Hitler was offered vice-chancellor, but refused. Eventually, Hindenburg was persuaded to appoint Hitler, who had agreed to share power with another minor party, but I believe they did not have a majority coalition.

And believe it.or not, I have no greater point to make. I was confused by RichardM's statement, and I was not convinced the factual bit was true, at least as far as I was understanding the claim.

If you think what I described qualifies as "Hitler was elected" then that's fine -- we just differ on what we mean by that. But my questioning of the claim was not based on being unaware of parliamentary systems, which is fairly obvious if you read my posts.
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  #142  
Old 23 June 2018, 04:15 PM
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Your point may have been lost in your defensiveness.
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  #143  
Old 23 June 2018, 07:35 PM
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Her defensiveness about what??
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  #144  
Old 23 June 2018, 09:22 PM
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For the record, I thought erwins asked a perfectly reasonable question as I did not fully get what RichardM meant either. Was it an observation that Hitler was literally elected (which he wasn’t, technically, but it’s a fair point that a 20th century republic served as the mechanism for his coming into power) or was it a metaphorical "Hitler was just elected, in the USA, by which I mean to say that Trump is just as bad as Hitler and the USA today is just as bad as Nazi Germany was then."

Because while I currently think he meant the former (especially now that he’s clarified what he meant), but my initial reaction, particularly given all the hyperbole in this thread, was that he meant the latter.

Maybe this is an example how/why Godwin's Law became a thing. Even if it is a perfectly admissible argument (as the former interpretation is, albeit flawed given Germany's parliamentary system and the nuances of all the behind the scenes maneuvering that went in with his appointment as Chancellor) it can lead to some misunderstanding that sends things in a wild direction.
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  #145  
Old 23 June 2018, 11:52 PM
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Hitler's rise to power started with his winning an election. Further things that lead to him being able to complete his take over was his ability to speak to his followers, Germans having a strong sense of 'Germany first'. Hitler exploited a sense of Antisemitism among many of the people; Germany's economy was in tatters.

The orange one has won only one election. He speaks well to his electorate. Trumpites have a strong sense of 'America first.' Orange dump has stated support for Nazis or at least for those on that side. Our economy seems to be doing well despite main stream Republican policies being put in place.

Other factors are that any Republican who varies from the 'way of righteousness,' is liable to be set upon by a pack of rabid Trumpites and lose in the primaries. Past Republican administration on the local levels have gerrymandered voting districts so that electing any Democrat is difficult to start with.

So, no, there is not a direct correlation to Hitler and orange. But there are enough things wrong with the right wing to be afraid. One example, a Congressman can agree with Republican views on taxes and even abortion yet lose because of supporting global warming. See Associated Press article by Seth Borenstein and Steve Peoples titled "Global warming now hotly contested." It ran in the Las Cruces Sun-News onFriday June 22. I am sure it ran in other USA Today owned newspapers.
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  #146  
Old 24 June 2018, 01:00 AM
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You know Hitler got props from Hindenburg for the night of the long knives?
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  #147  
Old 24 June 2018, 03:13 AM
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If you really want to see something bordering on Hitler's rise to power played out in the 21st century, take a look at what’s going on in Turkey right now.
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  #148  
Old 24 June 2018, 05:54 PM
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I agree. Turkey is well on its way to becoming a complete dictatorship.
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  #149  
Old 25 June 2018, 07:20 AM
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Adding to the diskussion about Hitler's "democratic raise to power", there is the Enabling Act of 1933, the law that gave the German Cabinet—in effect, Chancellor Adolf Hitler—the power to enact laws without the involvement of the Reichstag. After passing that law, the Reichstag had become irrelvant and convened only twenty times during the "Third Reich", lastly in April 1942.

The Enabling Act was voted upon in the Reichstag, with the members of the Communist Party absent (in jail or concentration camps or gone underground or into exil) and only the Social Democrats voting against (their members would be joining the Communists shortly thereafter). The vote was 444 in favour, with 94 (all Social Democrats present) against. Those in favour came from all other parties, not only the 288 seats the NSDAP held after the election of March 1933.

So it is possible that a democratic country votes itself into dictatorship, given the right circumstances.
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  #150  
Old 25 June 2018, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Enrico View Post
So it is possible that a democratic country votes itself into dictatorship, given the right circumstances.
Just look at what happened after Jar Jar Binks' speech to the Galactic Senate!

(Sorry, couldn't resist. You can go back to being serious now.)
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  #151  
Old 26 June 2018, 02:35 PM
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With Republicans on the Hill getting increasingly vocal about the fact that Trump's behavior is less than helpful to their cause, I wonder whether we'll see this scenario play out:

What sitting presidents have been denied their party's nomination?

(2009 NPR article.)
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  #152  
Old 26 June 2018, 03:19 PM
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Since they couldn't stop him from getting the nomination in the first place, I can't imagine any way that they could stop him the second time when he has the power of actually being President. All of the cases in that article were from long before the modern primary system, where the party could pick someone without having to deal wit the voters.
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  #153  
Old 03 July 2018, 06:21 PM
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I will put this here:

#secondcivilwarletters is hilarious....



"we have captured Chick-fill-a, but I hear they captured Starbucks. Our unit marches at dawn to retake it"

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  #154  
Old 03 July 2018, 07:33 PM
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In GenYette's internet circle, they are figuring out who will bring what dish to the second civil war. I suggested we bring hardtack or johnny bread but there wasn't much enthusiasm.
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  #155  
Old 03 July 2018, 09:52 PM
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Alarm, that is hysterical!

GenYus, some chunk of my head is now trying to write a scene in which there's a standoff between a batch of left-wing old hippies and a batch of right-wing survivalists . . . over which group can produce a better food supply now that the grocery stores aren't being restocked.

(My vote, at least in the long run, is with the old hippies. We're more likely to be actually growing the stuff, and can therefore replenish; the survivalists are more likely to be relying on dried and canned stuff stored in the basement, and will run out. And if they try to take our gardens by force . . . well, the deer have been trying that for years; and they're venison in the freezer.)
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  #156  
Old 03 July 2018, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
well, the deer have been trying that for years; and they're venison in the freezer.)
That doesn't seem very old hippie...
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  #157  
Old 03 July 2018, 11:16 PM
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Depends on the old hippie.

Some of us went in for vegetarianism; but not all, either in the 1970's or since.
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  #158  
Old 04 July 2018, 03:37 PM
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I posted my own...

a reimagining of the Dwarves of Moria's last stand in the Chamber of Mazarbul...

I had been thinking about doing a letter about a fight over a mall, when it came to me that such a document already existed in Tolkien's great work...
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  #159  
Old 04 July 2018, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
In GenYette's internet circle, they are figuring out who will bring what dish to the second civil war. I suggested we bring hardtack or johnny bread but there wasn't much enthusiasm.
haven't you heard, the "libtard" side is only supposed to subsist on lattes and avocado toast whilst the incel brigades, the Redhats and the MAGA battalions feast on Chik-fill-a
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  #160  
Old 31 August 2018, 05:56 PM
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From Daniel Dale, of the Toronto Star:

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1035539603116240896

Quote:
NAFTA BOMBSHELL: The Star has obtained inflammatory secret comments about Canada that Trump made "off the record" yesterday, and they have upended the talks this morning
Here is his article:

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...th-canada.html

My comment: He's sticking it to us while he sucks up to Russia and North Korea. He's given no direction to compromise. He entered negotiations with a trade surplus, I don't see how we are sticking it to the US.

What a complete loser.

Hopefully, the pundits have it right and this is all braggadocio and the people in the negotiations are actually negotiating in good faith.

Right now, I am feeling that Americans suck.

***trying out how to integrate a tweet for my first time. Excuse any oddness of how I attempted it.
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