snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Rantidote

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 07 October 2018, 06:04 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,475
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
The 'e' I pronounce in 'effort' isn't the same 'e' that I pronounce in 'perish'.
I get that, that's why I said it wasn't a good example.

If we met in person, I might be able to convey the difference, but I'm out of ideas for how to describe it in writing.
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 07 October 2018, 06:41 PM
Esprise Me's Avatar
Esprise Me Esprise Me is offline
 
Join Date: 02 October 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,855
Default

Thorny, how do you say "error"? Is it like the "e" in "effort," or more like "air"?
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 07 October 2018, 07:29 PM
erwins's Avatar
erwins erwins is offline
 
Join Date: 04 April 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,190
Default

It's hard to say without using a standard phonetic notation system, but it's likely that the initial vowel sound in all is essentially the same vowel, it's just that it's affected by the r that follows it in perish or error.

I think the Aaron/Erin merger is the same as or related to the merry, Mary, marry merger. Erin is likely pronounced the same for most accents, with the first syllable as in merry. For some speakers, Aaron is pronounced the same, and for others, it starts with close to the a sound in cat.* To loop this around slightly, Norwegian uses an additional letter for this sound as well: , which I think is also used as a phonetic symbol for that sound in some phonetic systems.

* I can't use an a followed by r example for this, even though it is affected by r, because that's what the merger is about. For many, there may not be a ready example of that vowel followed by r. It may also be like the a in Mary -- sort of in between merry and marry for those with a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 07 October 2018, 07:44 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
If we met in person, I might be able to convey the difference, but I'm out of ideas for how to describe it in writing.
I'm probably not describing it very well in writing, either.

But if you're going to be in the Finger Lakes, let me know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
Thorny, how do you say "error"? Is it like the "e" in "effort," or more like "air"?
More like "air". -- I pronounce "err" and "air" the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erwins View Post
It's hard to say without using a standard phonetic notation system, but it's likely that the initial vowel sound in all is essentially the same vowel, it's just that it's affected by the r that follows it in perish or error.
Yes, I suspect that that's what's going on.

My mouth changes shape for the following 'r', and that affects the sound of the vowel -- of the vowels 'a' and 'e' in particular; less I think for 'i', but to some extent; not for 'o' and 'u', I think because the mouth position for 'o' and 'u' is close to the one for 'r' to begin with.
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 07 October 2018, 08:55 PM
Esprise Me's Avatar
Esprise Me Esprise Me is offline
 
Join Date: 02 October 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,855
Default

That makes sense. To me, the "e" in Erin, error, and effort (and merry) are all the same, and different from the initial vowel in Aaron. But then I was a little thrown off when Lainie likened Aaron to apple, and I realized I pronounce Aaron like air (or Mary.) My accent is a weird hodgepodge; I grew up in SoCal, but my folks are from Long Island, but their folks were all from various other places, so none of us sounds distinctly from anywhere specific, but we all have these little variations in pronunciation. I noticed growing up that some of my peers pronounced pin and pen alike, as well as feel and fill, which drove me crazy. I think I pronounce cot and caught differently, but that might be just because I'm a visual person; if you recorded me saying each of them in a sentence, then played back just one of the words, I'm not sure I could tell you which one I was saying. I'm similarly uncertain about Mary and marry, though I definitely pronounce merry differently.
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 07 October 2018, 08:58 PM
Pinecone's Avatar
Pinecone Pinecone is offline
 
Join Date: 29 January 2008
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 2,630
Default

To me, Mary, merry and marry all sound different from each other, as do Aaron and Erin.
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 07 October 2018, 10:12 PM
erwins's Avatar
erwins erwins is offline
 
Join Date: 04 April 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,190
Default

Pinecone, I believe those particular mergers are a North American thing.

Cot and caught is not, but in Scotland, for example, the merger is in the other direction from most of the US. (Toward caught in Scotland, toward cot in most parts of the US where it has happened or is happening.)

Esprise Me, one source I was looking at had various measurements that included whether the speaker thought they pronounced them differently, and whether it was detectable to others. With merry, Mary, and marry I think I pronounce them differently, but I'm not sure it's detectable. Cot and caught have a bigger difference to me, but not nearly as much as in some other accents. I think others would be able to tell.
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 07 October 2018, 11:45 PM
erwins's Avatar
erwins erwins is offline
 
Join Date: 04 April 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,190
Default

I started a new thread for this discussion here: http://message.snopes.com/showthread...13#post1989013, so that we can un-hijack this thread. It seems like we've moved on from the original tangents and then some.

It seems like there's a lot to discuss if people want to keep the discussion going there.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 08 October 2018, 12:11 AM
WildaBeast's Avatar
WildaBeast WildaBeast is online now
 
Join Date: 18 July 2002
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 15,674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
LTAAM: This parking job.
Not quite that bad, but someone where I work parks their giant pickup truck across two parking spaces. Every. Single. Day. I think they think the way they're parking isn't so bad because the second space they're using has a light pole in front of it taking up some of the space, but it's still a suitable space for a smaller car. And it annoys me that they're preventing people from using a perfectly usable parking space.
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 08 October 2018, 08:51 AM
Gutter Monkey's Avatar
Gutter Monkey Gutter Monkey is offline
 
Join Date: 13 December 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,074
Default

The pronunciation discussion reminded me of this comic: http://nedroid.com/2011/08/pronunciation-station/
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 08 October 2018, 03:30 PM
Seaboe Muffinchucker's Avatar
Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
Join Date: 30 June 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18,733
Glasses

Two little things that annoy me (and one is also first world):

A. People who let their trees overhang the sidewalk at a height of less than 6 feet.

2. Android updated my phone, and slowed everything down in the process.

Seaboe
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 08 October 2018, 03:41 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 26,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
2. Android updated my phone, and slowed everything down in the process.
Not that this helps the annoyance at #2, but it could have been worse:

Quote:
Microsoft Suspends Windows 10 Update Rollout After Users Report Deleted Files
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 08 October 2018, 04:35 PM
SatansHobbit's Avatar
SatansHobbit SatansHobbit is offline
 
Join Date: 31 May 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,777
Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
A. People who let their trees overhang the sidewalk at a height of less than 6 feeT.
My Ents know what they're doing Seaboe, the basketballers are first to go.

Unless..."See Beau Muffin chuck a" three pointer counts?

I'm drunk
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 08 October 2018, 07:33 PM
Cervus's Avatar
Cervus Cervus is offline
 
Join Date: 21 October 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,167
Default

LTTAM: Having to re-bag my groceries because the bagger put 10 lbs of canned/bottled goods in one bag and put 5 little yogurts in a bag by themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 08 October 2018, 10:47 PM
Darth Credence's Avatar
Darth Credence Darth Credence is offline
 
Join Date: 28 October 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,569
Default

I have to go to a training class all day Friday. That annoys me by itself, but not enough to write it up here. No, what got it here is the email from the trainer we got today. And not even the content (although it's annoying), but the font.
It isn't trivial to change the default font in Outlook. You have to go through a number of menus to get there. (I suppose he could be changing it every time in the email, but that would be worse.) So knowing that it takes effort to set that font, why in the world would anyone even choose Comic Sans as their font? It's a horrible choice that becomes difficult to read on some devices. It also irrationally makes me think the writer is a child or an idiot.
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 08 October 2018, 11:47 PM
DrRocket's Avatar
DrRocket DrRocket is offline
 
Join Date: 03 February 2006
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 2,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
Could it be that they have a night shift? Although that wouldn't explain every light being on.
Seaboe
At seven stories, it's a decent size building. I could see an occasional area here or there that's lit up for night shift, but no, the entire building has every single light on. It's an insurance company, so I doubt they need an extensive second shift.

It's no the only one. I see others like it on my way home.
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 09 October 2018, 12:03 AM
Esprise Me's Avatar
Esprise Me Esprise Me is offline
 
Join Date: 02 October 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,855
Default

Supposedly Comic Sans is one of the easier fonts for people with dyslexia. I don't know if that has anything to do with your trainer's choice, but I feel a little guilty for hating on it now.
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 09 October 2018, 12:05 AM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,475
Default

My employer, a very large insurance & financial services company, runs very large second shifts, but not 7 floors worth.

Some businesses keep some lights on for security, but I wouldn't think you'd need to light up the whole building.
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 09 October 2018, 12:24 AM
WildaBeast's Avatar
WildaBeast WildaBeast is online now
 
Join Date: 18 July 2002
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 15,674
Default

The light thing reminded me of a story from my former employer. There, the lights were on a timer and went off automatically at 6:00 pm. If you were working late, there was a phone number you could call and enter a code to turn the lights back on in your area for one hour. Apparently in the early days of that campus one of the upper manager types had a house in the hills from which you could see the campus. As a party trick, this manager would call that number from his home phone and his guests would watch all the lights come on. (I guess there was a code to turn on *all* the lights that wasn't publicized to all the employees but was known to managers.)
Reply With Quote
  #200  
Old 09 October 2018, 01:18 AM
Crius of CoH's Avatar
Crius of CoH Crius of CoH is offline
 
Join Date: 13 February 2006
Location: Paragon City (Cranston), RI
Posts: 1,875
Default

I really don't understand the widespread hate-on for Comic Sans, and yes, I've read articles about why. Those articles are mostly about why typographers and designers dislike it, which doesn't much explain why so many others hate it (unless I'm living in an alternate Hollywood movie world, where everyone is a graphic designer instead of an architect).

I agree that Comic Sans isn't the be-all, end-all font - my own personal preference is for the fairly staid and boring Times New Roman, or Arial if I want a sans serif - but the vitriol I've seen on the web over the years just makes me go wtf?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Little things that annoy you WildaBeast Rantidote 1046 27 December 2017 07:19 PM
Little things that annoy you Phil'sGirl Rantidote 1027 12 April 2016 11:11 PM
Little things that annoy you Sylvanz Rantidote 999 03 January 2015 08:50 PM
Little things that annoy you smittykins Rantidote 1056 18 August 2014 05:58 PM
Little things that annoy you Richard W Rantidote 1029 03 October 2013 04:20 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.