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Old 08 November 2018, 01:31 PM
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Default 13 dead including sheriff's sergeant and suspect in shooting in Southern California

13 dead including sheriff's sergeant and suspect in shooting in Southern California bar

Thirteen people including a sheriff's deputy and the gunman were killed in a shooting in a crowded bar here late Wednesday night, reports CBS Los Angeles. The shooter was found dead inside, authorities said.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/possibl...-live-updates/
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Old 08 November 2018, 05:04 PM
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Let's arm everybody! What could possibly go wrong?



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Old 08 November 2018, 05:25 PM
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It seems one good guy with a gun was not sufficient. Maybe we need 2 good guys with guns to stop 1 bad guy with a gun?

ETA: In this case, it was a bad guy with a gun who stopped the bad guy with a gun. So we need more bad guys with guns??
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Old 08 November 2018, 06:17 PM
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Default Group that survived Las Vegas massacre was at California bar shooting

For one large group of people at a Southern California bar where a gunman killed 12 people Wednesday night, it was their second narrow escape from a mass shooting. One man said he and others inside the Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks also survived the shooting that killed 58 people and injured nearly 500 others at a country music concert in Las Vegas last October.

Nicholas Champion said he and many others in the bar were also at the Las Vegas Route 91 shooting.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/califor...bar-and-grill/
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  #5  
Old 08 November 2018, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
It seems one good guy with a gun was not sufficient. Maybe we need 2 good guys with guns to stop 1 bad guy with a gun?
The good guys need two guns each, obviously. They need a smaller gun attached to their big gun so that they can shoot bad guys while they're shooting bad guys.
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Old 08 November 2018, 07:10 PM
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How about a giant gun where the bullets are little good guys with guns?
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Old 08 November 2018, 07:31 PM
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So, here's something I've been pondering lately. The Supreme Court has said that the right to bear arms is an individual right. However, would it be an unreasonable infringement to limit how many guns a particular person can possess?

Obviously such a limitation would not prevent all shootings -- perhaps few of them. But it does seem that many of the mass shooters are the sort who don't just own one or two guns. So far as I know, the shooter in this particular incident used only one gun (though it apparently had a high-capacity magazine of a sort illegal in California). But the synagogue shooter last week was carrying four, and of course the shooter in Vegas last year had a room full of the damned things.

Why not restrict the number of firearms an individual can own to, say, three? That seems like it would be enough for any reasonable person -- you could own a hunting rifle, a handgun, and a shotgun. Of course there could be exceptions for serious collectors, but they would need a license requiring a serious background check and might have more stringent requirements when it comes to safe storage, theft reporting, insurance, etc.

I suppose gun-rights advocates would maintain with some justice that it wouldn't stop anyone from committing a shooting. But I'd be curious as to their rationale as to why the individual has a right to an apparently unlimited number of firearms.
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Old 08 November 2018, 07:37 PM
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Just throwing this out there: Washington state voters pass measure to strengthen gun laws.

Seaboe
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  #9  
Old 08 November 2018, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
For one large group of people at a Southern California bar where a gunman killed 12 people Wednesday night, it was their second narrow escape from a mass shooting. One man said he and others inside the Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks also survived the shooting that killed 58 people and injured nearly 500 others at a country music concert in Las Vegas last October.

Nicholas Champion said he and many others in the bar were also at the Las Vegas Route 91 shooting.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/califor...bar-and-grill/
Because of course it would make no sense to blame the easy accessibility of guns, and a gun glorifying culture, it's clear that country music is to blame.

/sarcasm

I don't even know what to say in all seriousness. It's a dark day. Between this and RBG's fall, I just want to go back to bed and pull the covers over my head.
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Old 08 November 2018, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
So, here's something I've been pondering lately. The Supreme Court has said that the right to bear arms is an individual right. However, would it be an unreasonable infringement to limit how many guns a particular person can possess?
I suspect that line of argument would be about as popular as arguing about restrictions on what type of guns people are allowed to own.
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Old 08 November 2018, 08:16 PM
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Regarding EQ Taft's proposal:

I don't know that a limit on guns would do much good. Most mass shooters seem to have 2 or 3 guns with them during the shooting. They might have a lot more at home, but a limit on guns would most likely just cause them to distill their collection down to 2 or 3, just like they choose which guns to use when they decide to commit the mass shooting. In the cases where they do have more guns on them, many times they aren't used. The synagogue asshole had three copies of the same handgun. The Vegas asshole had 23 guns in his hotel room, but I can't find how many he actually used. This armchair psychologist would guess that many times the extra guns are used for a sense of security or machismo rather than for their purpose as actual weapons. The Matrix aside, it is generally going to be easier to carry multiple magazines and reload than carrying many weapons and switching to a new one.

And the murders and suicides that are the majority of gun deaths are committed with a single gun, so a limit wouldn't do much there.

Regarding the reasonableness of such a proposal, I would guess that it would be considered reasonable with regards to the Constitution*. There are laws regarding waiting periods to buy guns and laws requiring reporting of multiple handgun purchases within a set period of time. An upper limit isn't too much beyond that to immediately dismiss it.

* We all know how gun nuts would see it.
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Old 08 November 2018, 08:21 PM
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The other problem, of course, is that the NRA these days is really representing the gun industry, not gun owners. They're certainly going to be dead set against anything that might result in lower sales.

Related discussion here:

American Gun Culture Is Not Freedom. It Is Tyranny.
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Old 08 November 2018, 09:03 PM
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Although mass shootings can be uniquely horrifying, we need gun laws that could help prevent all gun violence, IMO. Trying to zero in on mass shootings is an exactly wrong strategy. The moves to take guns out of the hands of dv offenders, people who are shown to present a serious threat, and better background checks and enforcement seem like good choices, but I'm sure there are more.
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Old 09 November 2018, 02:08 AM
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Default 4 Laws That Could Stem the Rising Threat of Mass Shootings

The right gun laws do prevent shootings, research strongly indicates. And these laws do not mean confiscating everybody’s guns. Scientific American spoke with Garen Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis, Medical Center, and Daniel Webster, director of Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health’s Center for Gun Policy and Research, about four feasible legal and policy changes that would be most effective.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ZO8OqFyrhSSGhQ

Some of these would also address non-mass shootings. And of course, bear in mind that "mass shootings" in this context generally means a shooting with 4 or more victims. There are many more of these than we hear about on the national news (around 1 a day, I believe I read somewhere earlier); most of them involve people murdering members of their own family or other people known to them, and don't spark the same media reaction as when a gunman walks into a public place and opens up on a crowd indiscriminately.
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Old 09 November 2018, 02:23 AM
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Some fairly sane measures. Itíd be interesting to see numbers on people who support revoking voting rights for convicted felons vs. people who oppose restricting gun rights for violent offenders.
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  #16  
Old 09 November 2018, 04:55 AM
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IIRC, don't something like 60% of Americans consistently favor increased regulation of firearms?
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Old 09 November 2018, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
For one large group of people at a Southern California bar where a gunman killed 12 people Wednesday night, it was their second narrow escape from a mass shooting. One man said he and others inside the Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks also survived the shooting that killed 58 people and injured nearly 500 others at a country music concert in Las Vegas last October.

Nicholas Champion said he and many others in the bar were also at the Las Vegas Route 91 shooting.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/califor...bar-and-grill/
A survivor of the Las Vegas mass shooting was killed in the Thousand Oaks incident.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/nort...09-p50f0v.html
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  #18  
Old 10 November 2018, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
IIRC, don't something like 60% of Americans consistently favor increased regulation of firearms?
I canít find the cite (sorry), but Iíve actually heard that a MAJORITY of gun-owners favor increased regulation. Only a small percentage of gun-owners are members of the NRA, so this country is effectively being held hostage by a cult. Maybe we should just call them The Gun-Fondlers and treat them like a bizarre, incredibly stupid offshoot like we do regarding snake handlers.

If nothing else, Iíd be in favor of shutting the NRA out of the discussions. We know what their argument is, we know that they believe that everything, including all the stuff mentioned in the Alanis Morrissette song ďIronic,Ē can be solved with more guns.

Since they never have anything new to say, thereís no reason to interview or quote any of them, because itís not news. Itís the old Man-Bites-Dog versus Dog-Bites-Man bit. To the extent we mention them it should be done in passing, something along the lines of ďA NRA Spokesperson reiterated that gun control legislation would not solve the problem.Ē Itís quick and to the point and accurately reflects the NRAís views, without giving them any more attention than they deserve.
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