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  #541  
Old 08 November 2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ChasFink View Post
I didn't say I blamed the cashier for anything, I said it was an overreaction, as in "I probably wouldn't do it myself and I think it's being overly cautious."
I don't know either the rules of the specific store, or the laws of the specific state. But it's perfectly possible -- and has previously been said in this thread -- that the cashier could have lost their job over it, had to pay a large fine, or even been arrested. Would you still say that you wouldn't do it yourself if that's what you were risking? How about if that's what you were risking, and you were trying to keep going on a low-wage job and had no reserves, such that losing that job or being fined could also mean winding up homeless?

Maybe none of that was true in the particular case, and the cashier was just being unreasonably nitpicky. But we don't know. So there's no way to know whether it was an overreaction, or whether it was 'enforcement people ran a sting like this three weeks ago on the other side of town and caught my friend, who lost her job and is now sleeping on my couch, and even if this isn't a sting we're both going to be out on the street if my boss sees this minor going out the door carrying beer.'
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  #542  
Old 08 November 2018, 05:51 PM
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I feel we're spending a lot of time talking about my opinion - which in the scheme of things is not very important - about a single incident that was only mentioned because it seemed tangentially related to something else we were discussing. Oh, well - I've come this far. (Apologies in advance if I come off sounding snarky - it's not my intent.)

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Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
Yes, and my point--that such a thing is easy to say when you are looking at an event you were not present for, and in hindsight--also still stands.

Seaboe
It is part of the human experience that we form opinions in hindsight about events we were not present for. If this were not the case we wouldn't have opinions about the lives and teachings of Moses, Jesus, or Muhammad; of any of the hundreds of wars that shaped the world we live in; or of most of what we see in the news. In this instance I was forming such an opinion based on statements of someone who was there, and on my knowledge (incomplete though it is) of the law. Juries do this all the time, the only difference being that their limited understanding of the law is based on a judge's instruction. Since this is not a court of law and no one is being blamed of wrongdoing - let alone accused of a crime - I feel my own online legal research is sufficient.

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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
I don't know either the rules of the specific store, or the laws of the specific state. But it's perfectly possible -- and has previously been said in this thread -- that the cashier could have lost their job over it, had to pay a large fine, or even been arrested. Would you still say that you wouldn't do it yourself if that's what you were risking? How about if that's what you were risking, and you were trying to keep going on a low-wage job and had no reserves, such that losing that job or being fined could also mean winding up homeless?

Maybe none of that was true in the particular case, and the cashier was just being unreasonably nitpicky. But we don't know. So there's no way to know whether it was an overreaction, or whether it was 'enforcement people ran a sting like this three weeks ago on the other side of town and caught my friend, who lost her job and is now sleeping on my couch, and even if this isn't a sting we're both going to be out on the street if my boss sees this minor going out the door carrying beer.'
I have already said I no longer think it was overreaction, based on the explanation in Gibbie's story. If the law, store policy, or just common sense made the cashier in Lainie's case think "if that possibly underage girl walks out of here with that beer I could get in trouble" then it was perfectly reasonable to tell her not to do that.

However, it would also be perfectly reasonable for that cashier to tell Lainie and her daughter "because it will look like I let her buy it" or something similar. I sense this was not said based on the way Lainie told the story. It would also be perfectly reasonable to say "she can do it if she shows me she's 21" - because in that case she would have been able to buy it.

By the way, in my opinion which may differ from yours, if the state liquor authority is running stings based on the gray area of a helpful but possibly underage daughter carrying mom's groceries, rather than on the more obvious 21-year-old buying booze for his 19-year-old friends, then they're putting way too much thought into things, and setting up deliberate traps rather than testing whether due diligence is being exercised.

With that, I think I really have nothing more to say on the matter.
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  #543  
Old 08 November 2018, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ChasFink View Post
By the way, in my opinion which may differ from yours, if the state liquor authority is running stings based on the gray area of a helpful but possibly underage daughter carrying mom's groceries, rather than on the more obvious 21-year-old buying booze for his 19-year-old friends, then they're putting way too much thought into things, and setting up deliberate traps rather than testing whether due diligence is being exercised.
I've seen quite a few posters to the effect of 'it's your ID, don't use it to buy alcohol for minors' that are clearly aimed, not at 21-year-olds buying for their similar-aged but slightly younger friends, but to discourage adults well out of their twenties from being talked into buying alcohol for teens much younger than themselves.

So that's clearly considered a significant problem; and one of the ways in which my opinion varies from yours is that it's not "more obvious" to me that a person illegally handing alcohol to a minor after purchase is going to be in their early 20's than that such a person might be old enough to appear to be the minor's parent.


(Personally, I think that the entire attitude of 'nobody should ever touch alcohol until they're 21' is misguided and backfires, leading to a whole lot of binge drinking not only among people who have finally just become old enough to drink legally, but also among quite a few teenagers who have absorbed, on some level of their minds, the idea that drinking alcohol is A Grownup Thing To Do. But I'm not the one writing the laws.)
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  #544  
Old 08 November 2018, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
(Personally, I think that the entire attitude of 'nobody should ever touch alcohol until they're 21' is misguided and backfires, leading to a whole lot of binge drinking not only among people who have finally just become old enough to drink legally, but also among quite a few teenagers who have absorbed, on some level of their minds, the idea that drinking alcohol is A Grownup Thing To Do. But I'm not the one writing the laws.)
(I thought I posted this already, but I guess I didn't hit the button. This is a more concise version.)

Now that we're on a new topic, I do have something to day - I agree.

I began drinking alcohol at 16 or 17 (legally with parental permission) and began driving rather late around 19. By then I had leaned what it feels like to be intoxicated and how long it would take to wear off - and what the effects of drinking too much were. I can't imagine what it would have been like if I was already driving when I began to learn how to drink responsibly.
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  #545  
Old 08 November 2018, 09:53 PM
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I can't imagine it makes much of a difference especially since most Americans have experience with alcohol before they start driving anyway.
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  #546  
Old 08 November 2018, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
(Personally, I think that the entire attitude of 'nobody should ever touch alcohol until they're 21' is misguided and backfires, leading to a whole lot of binge drinking not only among people who have finally just become old enough to drink legally, but also among quite a few teenagers who have absorbed, on some level of their minds, the idea that drinking alcohol is A Grownup Thing To Do. But I'm not the one writing the laws.)
Absolute agreement, from my experience.

I was allowed to drink beer with Mom and Dad out of my child-size glass. As an adult, I learned how to drink like an *adult,* *responsibly,* and consequently never had the desire to sneak alcohol behind my father's back or binge drink when I was away from home for the first time.

In my experience, the ones whose fathers said "if I ever catch you drinking beer I'll . . . , " without any attempt to educate, tended to be the ones headed for trouble.

Thanks.

Bill
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  #547  
Old 08 November 2018, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
I can't imagine it makes much of a difference especially since most Americans have experience with alcohol before they start driving anyway.
It makes a difference because teenagers aren't learning to drink responsibly, and are instead being taught that there's no such thing as drinking responsibly.

I grew up in a family, and in a culture, in which children of almost any age could have a sip of wine if they were curious about it (or as part of communion or Sabbath dinner), and younger teenagers could have maybe half a glass of wine or beer at dinner or at a party if their adult family members were having it. And I almost never saw anybody drunk.

Beer or wine or cocktails weren't, to me, something one got drunk on; nor were they forbidden fruit, or a rite of passage into adulthood. They were just something people drank at dinner, or at parties, if they felt like it; but which you didn't want to take too much of, because if you did get drunk it was embarrassing.

When I went to college, the legal age was 18, so most college students were legal to drink. Professors gave sherry parties for their students. I never saw anybody drunk at one of those, either -- that really would have been embarrassing. (Some people did get drunk at other campus parties; but getting drunk by accident was considered sort of silly -- I got teased a bit for doing it once -- , and getting drunk on purpose as a routine matter was rather looked down on, at least by most of the people I ran into. Of course, some of those same people routinely got so stoned they couldn't stand up. But then, marijuana was Forbidden Fruit.)

Caveat, however: having adult family/friends/teachers model and allow drinking behavior very likely doesn't work well if said adults do get drunk, and/or have alcoholism.
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  #548  
Old 08 November 2018, 11:52 PM
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I grew up in a family where I was allowed a glass or wine or something comparable from a young age. This was how my extended family has always handled things. From this pool of of people, I've seen drinking behavior across the spectrum from not drinking at all to the worst cases of alcohol abuse I've ever witnessed. Having a glass of wine or a beer every once in a while from an early age did not inoculate any of us against binge drinking.

I've also had close friends on both end of the spectrum, and the ones from families which were vary permissive about drinking didn't become more responsible drinkers at a higher rate. I went to a school with a sizable Mormon population and didn't see many of my Mormon friends drop off the deep end when they went to college.

I'd say if there is a correlation its one to parenting styles rather than attitudes about alcohol.
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  #549  
Old 09 November 2018, 01:38 PM
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From my experience, the people who learned to drink when they had a support system around, such as parents that were not far off, were in better shape than those who learned to drink surrounded by just a group of peers, many of whom were not more experienced, and so didn't know about pacing.
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  #550  
Old 10 November 2018, 12:30 AM
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Justt plucking this as an exambple...

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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
When I went to college, the legal age was 18, so most college students were legal to drink. Professors gave sherry parties for their students. I never saw anybody drunk at one of those, either -- that really would have been embarrassing. (Some people did get drunk at other campus parties; but getting drunk by accident was considered sort of silly -- I got teased a bit for doing it once -- , and getting drunk on purpose as a routine matter was rather looked down on, at least by most of the people I ran into....[snip]
Wow. That is a tremendous cultural gulf. In the UK, (and probably much of europe) that paragraph is kind of amazing.
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  #551  
Old 10 November 2018, 12:50 AM
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Is it amazing because people do routinely get drunk at college in the UK and aren't embarrassed by it, or because they don't drink at all there? Or because professor/student sherry parties are still routine?
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  #552  
Old 10 November 2018, 01:03 AM
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It's pretty amazing to those of us who attended college more recently in the U.S. too.
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  #553  
Old 10 November 2018, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Is it amazing because people do routinely get drunk at college in the UK and aren't embarrassed by it, or because they don't drink at all there? Or because professor/student sherry parties are still routine?
One and three I think.

Three, because the icebreaker on my Geology Course was a “Wine and Cheese Party*” which invariably ended up with both Students and some lecturers alike getting absolutley hammered!



(Which I attended two year’s running at spectacular venues, due to repeating my first year at Uni)
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  #554  
Old 29 November 2018, 03:06 PM
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Glasses

Why do bearded men use beard oil? As a moisturizer?
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  #555  
Old 29 November 2018, 03:17 PM
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I don't use beard oil or wax, but from having a beard, at least part of the point of moustache / beard wax is to keep your moustache / beard out of your mouth. I just trim mine so that it's shorter around my mouth so I don't use it, but with a different style you'd need it if you didn't want to have hair in your mouth all the time. Also it means it holds a shape if you want it to.

For oil, I guess the same reason as you might use hair oil to make it a bit glossy? I don't know, really.
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  #556  
Old 29 November 2018, 04:31 PM
Bobcat Warrior Bobcat Warrior is offline
 
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I use Tea Tree Hair and Body moisturizer in my beard. I tried the oil but didn't really care for it.

BW
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  #557  
Old 29 November 2018, 05:59 PM
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I tried using beard oil recently after running across it in the store (I actually didn't know it existed before that). The claim on the packaging is that it softens the hair and helps alleviate "beard itch". It does seem to help somewhat -- I actually forgot to use it this morning as I overslept and was in a bit of a rush, and it does feel a bit drier and itchier than when I do use it, but I have no way to tell if that isn't just a placebo effect.
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  #558  
Old 02 December 2018, 12:18 AM
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Stupid question: I got a copy of Anthony Bourdain's cookbook for my birthday last year. That book contains an entry called "Big [NFBSKing] Steak", which isn't a recipe really, just advise on how to select and prepare a good steak. He says to first either grill or pan sear it, then finish it in a 400F oven, let is rest for five minutes, and don't cut or poke it until that five minutes is up. But he doesn't give any information about how long to leave it in the oven. I know that depends on how you like it cooked, but I don't even have a ballpark idea of how long it will take. The same as if I'd cooked it fully on the grill? Longer? And how do I tell when it's cooked to my desired doneness? My usual method is to stick a thermometer in it, but that violates his "no poking" rule.
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  #559  
Old 02 December 2018, 01:19 AM
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Stick a thermometer in it. It is a steak, not a balloon.
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  #560  
Old 02 December 2018, 09:46 PM
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Check it by pushing on it. I just read this the other day but don't remember where. I think the firmer the steak the more done it is.
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