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  #41  
Old 20 June 2018, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by erwins View Post
Trump says he will sign an executive order to stop the separations and keep families together in detention.
So instead of separating families into adults in detention and kids in separate detention we'll throw everyone into one big detention center? I guess it is better like having a twisted ankle is better than a broken leg?
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  #42  
Old 20 June 2018, 08:31 PM
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Pretty much. But AIUI, the rules are still in place that prevent kids from being detained long-term, so either they will need extremely expedited hearings, or to resume releasing families after giving them citations. Or, of course, we can't rule out that this administration will just ignore the law (which was so important to enforce just a moment ago).
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  #43  
Old 20 June 2018, 08:45 PM
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Wasn't expedited hearings exactly what was going on before the zero tolerance policy went into effect?
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  #44  
Old 20 June 2018, 09:10 PM
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A court decision in 2015 allowed for a maximum of 20 days of detention. Hearings aren't required by that point as the government can always release the detained persons before their hearing.
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  #45  
Old 20 June 2018, 09:32 PM
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Several years ago, border patrol built a couple facilities designed to keep families together in detention. The NPR story I heard described them as a Days Inn that you couldn't leave.
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  #46  
Old 20 June 2018, 09:38 PM
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Oh, yeah. I think maybe the 20-day rule applies to jail-like facilities. So something more residential might get them out from under the rule. (This is hazy remembering on my part, and I can't look it up right now.)
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  #47  
Old 20 June 2018, 09:43 PM
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I don't get it.

Trump categorically stated that it was the Dems fault and it was up to the Dems to solve.

Now, he's signed an executive order ceasing the practice of separating families (even after one DHS employee stated that they are not confident that they will be able to reunite all children with their parents).

And the department defends against claims that DHS is full of Nazis by saying "they were just following orders".

Doesn't anyone in that Administration have a clue? I know Corey "womp womp" Lewandowski is clueless, as is Stephen "It was a simple decision by the administration to have a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry, period" Miller. Surely, not all Americans working there have sold their soul to the Orange Devil.
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  #48  
Old 21 June 2018, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by UEL View Post
Surely, not all Americans working there have sold their soul to the Orange Devil.
Why do you think there has been so much turnover in the Trump White House?
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  #49  
Old 21 June 2018, 03:30 AM
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The GOP will probably act like Trump deserves all the Nobels for his recent executive order. Itís not a big accomplishment, putting out a fire you personally and deliberately started.
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  #50  
Old 21 June 2018, 03:31 AM
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And we don't actually know that anything's going to change yet.
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  #51  
Old 21 June 2018, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Why do you think there has been so much turnover in the Trump White House?
Honestly, bodies on the parapet because they were voluntary sacrificial lambs to Trump. Trump fires people (Hope Hicks is the one name that jumps to mind) because she did what he wanted, but the optics looked bad. So, she's gone.

The staffer that maligned McCain, same thing.

Spicer, said exactly what the President wanted. Gone.

Scaramucci, hired to be a bulldog. Fired before he could get on a roll.

Very few have been departing because of moral issues. They've been leaving because they did exactly what the President wanted, but when the people did not like it, he threw them under the bus.
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  #52  
Old 21 June 2018, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
Several years ago, border patrol built a couple facilities designed to keep families together in detention. The NPR story I heard described them as a Days Inn that you couldn't leave.
You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave....
OR
Families check in...but they can't check out!

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  #53  
Old 21 June 2018, 12:44 PM
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I keep waiting for President Trump to look down a camera and shout "Is this enough? Do you love me now Daddy?"
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  #54  
Old 21 June 2018, 01:50 PM
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If you can explain this, then you're a better person than I am!
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  #55  
Old 21 June 2018, 02:40 PM
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So here's what I gather from watching the TV news last night and this morning. (Mostly the Disney Channel - I mean ABC News.)
  • The various agencies involved are waiting for instructions on exactly how to implement the Executive Order. (Did this happen with other presidents? Shouldn't preparation and dissemination of these instructions be worked out before the order is given?)
  • The order does not change the zero tolerance policy, nor does it seem that extremely expedited hearings will be the norm. Apparently, Trump will order agencies to ignore the 20 day child detention limit of the Flores settlement while it challenges that limit on the courts. (This may have been speculation by the reporter.)
  • There doesn't seem to be any plan in place to quickly reunite families already separated, and efforts to do so may be delayed by the fact that there is no one agency or central database that correlates the children with the adults they were taken from!
I also saw footage of a young boy who was in foster care in the US being reunited with his parents who had been deported to South America some time ago. He looked totally confused. He had not only been taken from his parents when he came here, he had now been taken from the people he thought of as his new family to be returned to the family who were now a slowly fading memory. I'm sure he will have nothing but good mental health for the rest of his life. He may even become a very stable genius.
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  #56  
Old 21 June 2018, 03:11 PM
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I have my doubts Trump signed that EO for any other reason than to turn the heat off. It's designed to cast himself in the best light possible while doing virtually nothing.

The same mentality is behind the rally in Minnesota... as with all his rallies so far... they are designed to remind him how wonderful he is.

~Psihala
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  #57  
Old 21 June 2018, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
Honestly, bodies on the parapet because they were voluntary sacrificial lambs to Trump. Trump fires people (Hope Hicks is the one name that jumps to mind) because she did what he wanted, but the optics looked bad. So, she's gone.
I don't think Trump cares enough about optics to account for the vast numbers who have departed. Sometimes it might be just an excuse. Also, there are a people who are still there despite their issues being greater than the departed. For example, why did Tom Price resign and David Shulkin get fired while Steve Mnuchin remain?
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  #58  
Old 21 June 2018, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Why do you think there has been so much turnover in the Trump White House?
The turnover may be a mixed bag, but I do think it's part of the reason for so many vacancies that are still unfilled.

And people in career civil servant positions are generally pretty miserable. Some have left, and many have thought about what their own personal line will be, that would cause them to quit.
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  #59  
Old 21 June 2018, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
I don't think Trump cares enough about optics to account for the vast numbers who have departed. Sometimes it might be just an excuse. Also, there are a people who are still there despite their issues being greater than the departed. For example, why did Tom Price resign and David Shulkin get fired while Steve Mnuchin remain?
You are most likely correct.

But, the second he looks bad, someone goes. Even if that someone did exactly what Trump wanted.
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  #60  
Old 21 June 2018, 07:05 PM
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Agreed with one alteration. Trump gets rid of somewhat when Trump thinks something makes him look bad. Much of that will probably depend on how Trump already thinks of someone as it seems that so much of his actions are based on gut feelings. If he thinks someone isn't a perfect sycophant, that probably colors how he feels that person performed. If Trump already thinks someone isn't loyal, he may see the bad press as proof the person is screwing up and/or out to get him. But if he feels the person is loyal, then the bad press is just part of the MSM out to get him.
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