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Old 07 July 2015, 01:06 PM
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Fight Disturbing video shows Florida State QB punch woman in bar incident

The State Attorney's Office in Tallahassee, Fla., released surveillance video on Monday showing FSU quarterback De'Andre Johnson punching a female student at a bar a month ago. Johnson was already suspended indefinitely due to the accusations and was dismissed from the university later Monday night following the videos release.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foot...incident-video
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Old 07 July 2015, 02:14 PM
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":Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words: it is war minus the shooting. " George Orwell

Orwell was talking about soccer and/or rugby, but it applies just as much to hockey, basketball, and gridiron. The Native Americans called lacrosse "the younger brother of war."
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Old 08 July 2015, 04:29 AM
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Not that I find the comparison between war and sports apt but what in the world does either have to do with violence in a bar??
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Old 08 July 2015, 04:57 AM
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I think it was a commentary on the kind of people who play sports. Or that playing sports makes people more aggressive and violent.
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Old 08 July 2015, 06:42 AM
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Prejudice is probably a greater spark for violence than sports. So I can't condone prejudice against jocks even though, sadly, many people hold this view. Not even if it's couched in the quote of some famous writer.
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Old 08 July 2015, 11:51 AM
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Not that it justifies the Florida QB's behavior, but it appears that she took a swing at him first. Was she also disciplined?
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Old 08 July 2015, 12:21 PM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
Not that it justifies the Florida QB's behavior, but it appears that she took a swing at him first. Was she also disciplined?
I agree that see tried to take a swing first, but it also looked like he may have been harassing her. I does look like this story started off screen somewhere and we only saw the end of it. With an added bonus of no sound.

As I was told in school after laying out the elementary school bully. Boys do not hit girls even if they deserve it.
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Old 08 July 2015, 12:26 PM
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Dondi, I was wondering if anyone would call attention to that. It was the first thing that I noticed. The course of events seemed to me to be: there were people trying to get to the bar to order; when the prior couple left, both the guy and the woman tried to move in and he got there (both were pushing, he was more so, I think, but I am not sure; I cannot tell who had been waiting longer); the woman took offense and immediately got in his face and waving her right hand in a fist at him; he grabbed her right arm to stop the threatened punch and mouthed off in return; she punched him with her left fist (not a very effective punch, but should that matter?); he punched back and left. I saw other comments that said he used an open hand, which would be more of a slap - still not fun to receive, but much less likely to cause injury. As far as I have heard, she has not been charged. If I have understood the activities right, then his punch/slap was defensive - she had hit him once and there was no telling if she would continue to hit him.

Also, Dondi, all the U. Florida fans want it pointed out that he was not a Florida player, but a Florida State player.
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Old 08 July 2015, 01:05 PM
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She made a mistake in raising her hand to him, but he made a bigger mistake on laying hands on her when she had not touched him. Though she may have made the first gesture, everything after he grabbed her is going to be seen as defensive. Had she hit him before that, it is unlikely that he would have suffered serious injury given their mismatch in strength, and he could have been the one filing battery charges. However, the article says she was treated for multiple facial injuries, so if it was an open handed slap, it was a hearty one, and that is more than enough for a battery charge.
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Old 08 July 2015, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderwoman View Post
She made a mistake in raising her hand to him, but he made a bigger mistake on laying hands on her when she had not touched him. Though she may have made the first gesture, everything after he grabbed her is going to be seen as defensive. Had she hit him before that, it is unlikely that he would have suffered serious injury given their mismatch in strength, and he could have been the one filing battery charges. However, the article says she was treated for multiple facial injuries, so if it was an open handed slap, it was a hearty one, and that is more than enough for a battery charge.
Does the effectiveness of the blows really matter? Does she get a walk on possible battery charges because she threw a punch that had minimal effect?

It is hard tell tell all that happened from the video. It looks to me like she was already at the bar and she was saving the spot next to her? Regardless, she threatened and threw the first punch, which should warrant battery charges.
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Old 08 July 2015, 07:17 PM
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I don't know about your state, but in mine, the injury inflicted is a big part of the definition of battery and its various levels of seriousness. So yes, legally it does matter. And the fact remains that he put his hands on her first. From what I can see in the video, she raised her fist, but did not throw a punch or touch him until after he grabbed her.

ETA: I forgot we live in the same state!

Also, I did mention that he could have filed battery charges if she had hit and injured him first. However, I know that our law determines whether Battery is misdemeanor or felony based partly upon the severity of injury.

Last edited by wanderwoman; 08 July 2015 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 08 July 2015, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singing in the Drizzle View Post
As I was told in school after laying out the elementary school bully. Boys do not hit girls even if they deserve it.
IMU that it's generally considered bad form to hit someone significantly who is smaller than you.
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Old 08 July 2015, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
Not that it justifies the Florida QB's behavior, but it appears that she took a swing at him first. Was she also disciplined?
"One does not strike a woman, even with a flower."---Hindu Proverb

Even if she initiates the attack, unless she's a great big Amazon, you should be able to restrain her without hurting her. And even if she does connect--again, unless she's an Amazon--she is most unlikely to be able to hurt you nearly as bad as you can hurt her, particularly if you are a great big hulking brute of a football player.
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Old 08 July 2015, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
IMU that it's generally considered bad form to hit someone significantly who is smaller than you.
She was 2 years older and one of the biggest kids on the playground.
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Old 08 July 2015, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singing in the Drizzle View Post
She was 2 years older and one of the biggest kids on the playground.
Sorry, I wasn't clear -- I was referring to the OP video, not accusing you.
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Old 08 July 2015, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderwoman View Post
I don't know about your state, but in mine, the injury inflicted is a big part of the definition of battery and its various levels of seriousness. So yes, legally it does matter. And the fact remains that he put his hands on her first. From what I can see in the video, she raised her fist, but did not throw a punch or touch him until after he grabbed her.
Concerning Indiana law: If she swung first then that is battery, perhaps misdemeanor battery but battery nonetheless. If he put his hands on her first, without provocation like a clenched fist, then that is chargeable. If he felt threatened then he has the right to protect himself. Looks to me like she raised her fist before he took hold of her. It may be that the raised fist wasn't meant as a threat but that is a judgement call. There is nothing in Indiana law that I know of that says you must protect yourself using no more force than your antagonist has used or threatened to use. Indeed Indiana is a "stand your ground" state (IC 35-41-3-2), someone threatens you with their fists you can pretty much shoot them.

Even a "non amazonian women" can break a nose, blacken an eye or detach a retina, none of those things require much force they just require hitting in the proper place, which can happen by luck.

The guy really had no justification for what he did, but neither did she, but that is based only on the video which might be missing important info (like what was said).
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Old 08 July 2015, 11:04 PM
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People who think in the terms that you have just expressed scare me and make me glad that I pretty much stay home when I'm not at work. In what kind of world is it reasonable to shoot someone for raising their fist?

I think you are wrong about the way the Indiana law would be interpreted, but if you are right, I need to get the NFBSK out of Indiana.

She did not swing before he grabbed her, and before she turned around and raised her fist, he was pushing her really hard. That seems to be why she was angry. How does that figure into your analysis? Should he have just shot her for being in his way?
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Old 09 July 2015, 03:00 PM
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The video doesn't play for me here, so I can't comment on that. But the talk about how unless the woman is an Amazon, any man should be able to restrain her without an issue is kind of disturbing. The attitude that men should be able to deal with anything physical a woman dishes out is why some men who are abused don't do anything.

I am not trying to turn things around and say men are victims of women in general - clearly more women are abused than men. But no one should be hitting anyone, regardless of size differential.
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Old 09 July 2015, 03:01 PM
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No one should be hitting anyone, but hitting back isn't necessarily the only response, let alone the correct one.
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Old 09 July 2015, 03:19 PM
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I would also point out that nobody has any business restraining anyone except in self defense. In the video, he restrains her(and, in fact appears to be pressing her hand against her own throat) when she has merely raised her fist. There were other options, including stepping away, if he felt threatened. He chose instead to try to overpower her, and then punched her in the face when she resisted his physical aggression.
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