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  #21  
Old 16 August 2018, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
I wonder what would happen if a Jewish or Muslim person tried to buy a religious-themed cake from him?
A Jewish person would get the cake without condition (Judeo-Christian values and all that). A Muslim would get the cake, maybe, but only if there was an atheist around to see how well believers can get along (like those interfaith groups where they have a big hug fest while all agreeing that whatever you believe is fine, just as long as you "believe"). As for the atheist... no cake for the impurity.
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  #22  
Old 16 August 2018, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
A Jewish person would get the cake without condition (Judeo-Christian values and all that).
A Jewish person would get the cake, but said cake would turn out to have Christian symbology on it, because 'Judeo-Christian values and all that' usually translates into 'we think Jews believe the same things that (our sort of) Christians believe'.
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  #23  
Old 17 August 2018, 06:20 AM
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Naturally.
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  #24  
Old 18 August 2018, 04:08 AM
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Just once I would like there to be a “refusing to bake a cake” stories that goes something like this:

Husband: Hey, I’d like to get a cake made to celebrate to celebrate my anniversary.

Baker: I’ll bake it for you, but first I must ask, “Have you ever touched your wife during her period of menstrual uncleanliness?”

Husband: What does that have to do with anything?!

Baker: Sorry, but my strict religious beliefs forbid me from having any contact with the unclean. Go perform the necessary ritual immersions then come back. Oh wait, is that a tattoo? Sorry but selling you a cake would lend support to your sinful lifestyle. I’m afraid I can do it.

After all, if you’re going to insist on an adherence to Mosaic law, you ought to at least commit to all of it, not just the ones that give you an excuse to hate Gays.
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  #25  
Old 18 August 2018, 07:38 AM
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Like refusing to bake a cake for someone who was wearing mixed fabrics at the time?
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  #26  
Old 18 August 2018, 02:30 PM
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The usual shtick is to claim that some later covenant or dispensation allows for overlooking those distasteful parts of the Bible while still being able to find something Paul wrote in a letter to someone that supports whatever hateful view they want to endorse.

Failing that, there’s always personal revelation/know in my heart. Belief in the supernatural is fundamentally arational at best.
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  #27  
Old 19 August 2018, 02:37 AM
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Well, they would say we shouldn't alter the Word of God and Paul's letters are considered the Word of God, since they're in the Bible, so clearly we should never alter Paul's words. Except that it has been done before and note that it was done not by evil atheists, but by good Christian men who would have been well-respected in the church. Then again, turning Junia into Junias did provide them an excuse to keep screwing women over, so maybe the Christian Right doesn't see such a problem with those kinds of changes.

I admit that as a Liberal Christian, I do have my issues with Paul. I understand and mostly agree with these criticisms, but I do think that both sides, the fundamentalists who worship him and his critics, can be annoyingly simplistic when it comes to him.

Most of the really misogynistic passages the Christian Right likes to dredge up, are from letters that likely weren't written by Paul. It was kind of a standard practice in the ancient world, putting the name of someone well-regarded by others to your letters, so as to lend them credence and get them spread further.

What we do see of Paul is that while his views regarding women probably aren't completely in line with Third Wave Feminism, they are more nuanced than the Christian Right would admit. In addition to the Junia bit, in 1 Corinthians 1:11, he says something along the lines on "I've heard from Chloe's household that there has been quarreling among you." Chloe is a woman's name and pretty much has never been used as a guy's name. By the label, it is surmised that Chloe is the head of the household and is pretty much running it, but the way Paul mentions it almost in passing, kind of conveys that he saw nothing particularly offensive or noteworthy about a woman being head of a household.

Of course, I'm in line with scholars who think that one line of Paul's that the Christian Right use as part of their anti-Gay argument, was referring to Pederasty, since there was something of a tradition of Rich (male) Roman Officials taking on underaged boys as lovers. Clearly my word can't be trusted.

In any case, even if Scholars find some old drafts of Paul's that go something along the lines of "I was totally talking about grown men preying on young boys, not a pair of consenting adults of the same sex with mutual love for one another" or "Seriously, I didn't write those letters. Will people stop putting my name to them?!" the anti-Gays would probably warp those texts just as they had with the Junia-Junias bit.

Quote:
But given a choice between the sacredness of their sacred text and having to admit the full equality of women and men, they’re perfectly willing and eager to change the text — to distort, alter, edit, twist, slice, chop and subvert it. You’d need an unabridged thesaurus to come up with all the manipulations and indignities they’d be willing to inflict on that text before they’d be willing to accept what this verse in Romans tells us about women’s leadership.
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  #28  
Old 19 August 2018, 05:23 AM
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It’s enough to make one question the usefulness of such a book, with such limited provenance and so many key points at issue. Even if it does contain nuggets of truth, they would appear to be indistinguishable from the mounds of "other stuff" absent independent confirmation.

Why not just throw the sacred text out and leave it to a secular/evidence-based approach to establish the equality of men, women, and what have you?
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  #29  
Old 19 August 2018, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
It was kind of a standard practice in the ancient world, putting the name of someone well-regarded by others to your letters, so as to lend them credence and get them spread further.
Still do.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fa...ascists-quote/
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  #30  
Old 19 August 2018, 09:04 PM
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If the oligarchs were to come back today they’d call themselves Republicans.
-Aristotle

Oh yeah? If the tyrants were to come back today they’d call themselves Democrats!
-Socrates

I’m trying to sleep! Go tell the Spartans and shut up already...
-Plato
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  #31  
Old 20 August 2018, 02:40 AM
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Either way, those assholes are still blocking my view.
-Diogenes
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  #32  
Old 20 August 2018, 07:26 AM
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And here I thought I was a cynic...
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  #33  
Old 20 August 2018, 08:20 AM
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Quit horsing around
- Odysseus
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  #34  
Old 20 August 2018, 02:15 PM
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I think you meant "quit Horusing around."
- Unknown Egyptian Scribe, New Kingdom, c. 1100 BCE (note 1).

Note 1: Approximately dated to the late New Kingdom based on stroke arrangement used for hieroglyphic falcon signifying Horus, common to scribes of that era [1]. The inscription was found on a tomb which appears to have belonged to an important priest in that same cult, but cannot be conclusively dated to the reign of a pharaoh given the defacement of associated iconography [2]. Some scholars (who? -- discuss) have suggested this may date the tomb to the reign of Apophis, but the majority of scholars reject this hypothesis as speculative and contraindicated by the weight of more conclusive evidence [3].

[1] My butt.
[2] Ibid.
[3] Ibid.
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  #35  
Old 20 August 2018, 02:23 PM
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ASL for the win.


-- Heraclitus ("OK you led Horus to the river, and you got him to drink out of it, but can you get him to do it again?")
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  #36  
Old 20 August 2018, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
ASL for the win.


-- Heraclitus ("OK you led Horus to the river, and you got him to drink out of it, but can you get him to do it again?")
Neigh, I cannot!-

Pliny the Elder
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  #37  
Old 20 August 2018, 03:13 PM
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Stop copying me!
-Plagerus
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  #38  
Old 20 August 2018, 03:42 PM
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*plays the violin while the thread burns*
-Nero
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  #39  
Old 20 August 2018, 04:12 PM
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Just don’t burn the cake.

And we’re back!
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  #40  
Old 20 August 2018, 07:48 PM
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