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Old 04 January 2016, 04:00 PM
Coughdrops Coughdrops is offline
 
 
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Read This! Microsoft Warns Windows 7 Has Serious Problems

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...ws-7-problems/

Quote:
Speaking to Windows Weekly, Microsoft Marketing chief Chris Capossela explained that users who choose Windows 7 do so “at your own risk, at your own peril” and he revealed Microsoft has concerns about its future software and hardware compatibility, security and more.

“We do worry when people are running an operating system that’s 10 years old that the next printer they buy isn’t going to work well, or they buy a new game, they buy Fallout 4, a very popular game, and it doesn’t work on a bunch of older machines,” Capossela stated. “And so, as we are pushing our ISV [Independent Software Vendor] and hardware partners to build great new stuff that takes advantage of Windows 10 that obviously makes the old stuff really bad and not to mention viruses and security problems.”

He also stressed it is “so incredibly important to try to end the fragmentation of the Windows install base” and to get users to a “safer place”.

There’s only one problem with Capossela’s statements: they are complete rubbish.

It sounds like Microsoft’s desperation is showing. Barely 2 years ago, when support for Windows XP was ending, Microsoft made a considerable push to get businesses of all size to abandon XP in favor of Windows 7, citing “security concerns”. Now, suddenly Windows 7–which is the stalwart of businesses small, medium, and large isn’t good enough, and we must all “upgrade” to Windows 10? Give me a break.

The only “risk” and “peril” in staying on Windows 7 is that if enough people and companies choose to do it, then Microsoft will fail to meet its market penetration goals for Windows 10, which means that it won’t be able to spy on as many people and won't have as much user data to sell.

I wonder if next they'll try to sabotage Windows 7 with malware updates?
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  #2  
Old 04 January 2016, 05:13 PM
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In fairness, though, 10 years is bordering on ancient in computing terms. People running what is essentially a closed system will be fine, but we can't expect all manufacturers to insure backward compatibility ad infinitum. The newer versions of Windows are built to integrate with mobile devices, work well with various social media platforms, and take advantage of touchscreen interfaces. It's only natural that new 3rd party development be geared toward the newer system. (I still happily use 15 year old Mac hardware and software for music recording, but I don't expect to be able to connect to newer printers, and forget about any serious applications which require the web.)

Personally, I think Apple has had the right idea - the past several iterations (major releases, not just incremental updates) of their system software have been free upgrades.
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  #3  
Old 04 January 2016, 05:27 PM
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NobleHunter NobleHunter is offline
 
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Windows 10 is free for the moment.
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  #4  
Old 04 January 2016, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
“We do worry when people are running an operating system that’s 10 years old that the next printer they buy isn’t going to work well..."
See, I've had the opposite problem. When I upgraded to Windows 7 I had difficulty finding drivers for my older but still functional and adequate for my purposes peripherals. I did manage to get my printer working, but I was never able to find a driver for the scanner and ended up getting rid of it. I didn't use it often, but it was handy to have if I needed a copy of some paper document.
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  #5  
Old 04 January 2016, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobleHunter View Post
Windows 10 is free for the moment.
You're right - I'd forgotten that!
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  #6  
Old 04 January 2016, 06:28 PM
Onyx_TKD Onyx_TKD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicgeek View Post
In fairness, though, 10 years is bordering on ancient in computing terms. People running what is essentially a closed system will be fine, but we can't expect all manufacturers to insure backward compatibility ad infinitum. The newer versions of Windows are built to integrate with mobile devices, work well with various social media platforms, and take advantage of touchscreen interfaces. It's only natural that new 3rd party development be geared toward the newer system. (I still happily use 15 year old Mac hardware and software for music recording, but I don't expect to be able to connect to newer printers, and forget about any serious applications which require the web.)
Sure, running newer software/peripherals on Windows 7 will become a problem at some point, but it's not like the availability of Windows 10 is some big secret. Microsoft has already made their earlier operating systems start begging pathetically--sorry, prompting users--to upgrade for free. People will upgrade when they find that Windows 7 is no longer working well for them, or when Microsoft stops supporting it (as for Windows XP), or when they are convinced that Windows 10 is worth upgrading to. Note that for a free upgrade available right from one's existing computer, the bar for "worth upgrading to" is pretty darn low. When a company can't even give away a new and "improved" product, to users who have already shown interest by purchasing a previous version, they should be taking a good hard look at what makes the "improved" product and/or the upgrade process so undesirable rather than trying to scare them into taking the offer.

If the "serious problem" is that some software/peripherals will start requiring Windows 10+ in the system requirements, then all Microsoft needs to do is wait, and people will upgrade. If the "serious problem" is security, then they should be properly maintaining their (still-supported) operating system by issuing updates to fix the security holes rather than trying to pass the buck onto their customers. I don't see any way scare announcements are for the benefit of the consumers.
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  #7  
Old 04 January 2016, 06:32 PM
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Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
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I agree with WildaBeast, that there are a lot more people out there who don't see the need to upgrade their existing peripherals and thus don't want to upgrade their operating system than there are people who want to upgrade peripherals and not the operating system.

My laptop is five years old. I don't need to upgrade it as it is still perfectly adequate for what I use it for. I also deeply resent Microsoft's increasing pressure to force me to upgrade, whether I want to or not. I don't care about the cost of the upgrade so much as the Big Brother (we know what's good for you) force behind it.

Seaboe
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  #8  
Old 04 January 2016, 06:36 PM
overyonder overyonder is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx_TKD View Post
I don't see any way scare announcements are for the benefit of the consumers.
It's mostly a lose-lose situation. If Microsoft doesn't let people know that your new hardware won't work, people will complain when it happens. And when they DO tell, people complain of bullying.

A 10-year old O/S is pretty old in the IT world.

OY
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  #9  
Old 04 January 2016, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx_TKD View Post
If the "serious problem" is that some software/peripherals will start requiring Windows 10+ in the system requirements, then all Microsoft needs to do is wait, and people will upgrade. If the "serious problem" is security, then they should be properly maintaining their (still-supported) operating system by issuing updates to fix the security holes rather than trying to pass the buck onto their customers. I don't see any way scare announcements are for the benefit of the consumers.
Fair enough. I can see it from Microsoft's point of view, though - obviously, it works out best for them if they don't have to maintain a large back end of legacy product support. I can see where the constant pressure on consumers, particularly the scaremongering, gets old.
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  #10  
Old 04 January 2016, 08:51 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicgeek View Post
In fairness, though, 10 years is bordering on ancient in computing terms.
Windows 7 was released in Oct 2009, Windows 8 in August 2012 and 8.1 in April 2014. So Windows 10 is only about 18 months after 8.1.
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  #11  
Old 04 January 2016, 09:02 PM
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And part of the issue is that many people found Windows 8 to be unusable.
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  #12  
Old 05 January 2016, 06:05 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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The big showstopper for me is that Windows 10 has some serious security concerns. We don't know what it reports back to MS, we know it has a tendency to force choices/updates on the user.

We do know that several other OS vendors has been approached by US authorities and asked to put hidden back doors into their OS, but the open source OS vendors has just laughed at them, told them that it's impossible to do in open source, that they wouldn't do it anyway, and then gone public with the request. I think it's pretty safe to assume that MS, Apple and Google got the same request. We haven't heard anything about it from either of them, but we know that Google turned them down (Android is open, so it would be impossible there as well). How about MS and Apple? Chances are that they caved in and sacrificed their customers.

For me, when my Windows 7 machines don't cut it anymore, it'll be all out Linux in my machine park. I already run Linux on the vast majority, I only have 5 windows machines (my gaming rig, an old laptop I don't really use, my GF's two laptops and youngest daughters machine). The rest of them (maybe 15 or so), run different flavours of Linux.

I hope that, with SteamOS, Linux will become a more practical platform for gaming as well, as that is the last hurdle for me. I've even finally found a good crossplatform development tool, which was the other big hurdle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicgeek View Post
In fairness, though, 10 years is bordering on ancient in computing terms. People running what is essentially a closed system will be fine, but we can't expect all manufacturers to insure backward compatibility ad infinitum.
For an operating system, 10 years is not that bad. There are still many industrial systems running on Windows 95, and even DOS, because they don't want the problems associated with an upgrade and because it works. Heck, Canons cameras internally use a version of DOS (FreeDOS, iirc), because that's all the OS they need.

I think the big problem is that Microsoft keeps changing the hardware driver model, which means that new drivers are required every second Windows version or so. I have tons of neat hardware (several 12" tablets, various wireless remotes, networking hardware, two scanners, hard disk controllers...) at home, but no working drivers for them as Windows has changed their driver model. Also, they screwed up multimonitor support big time in Windows 7 (or perhaps Vista). It used to work with several graphics cards of the same type, but now it don't, so my six monitor setup with three identical expensive cards does not work anymore, it can only see one card at the time. Worked nicely in XP/2000 and works nicely in Linux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
See, I've had the opposite problem. When I upgraded to Windows 7 I had difficulty finding drivers for my older but still functional and adequate for my purposes peripherals.
Yep, that's exceedingly annoying. Compare it to Linux, where, once a driver exist, it will exist forever, as it's upgraded as the OS is upgraded. This is the main reason Linux has a much larger range of hardware devices supported.
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  #13  
Old 05 January 2016, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
Windows 7 was released in Oct 2009, Windows 8 in August 2012 and 8.1 in April 2014. So Windows 10 is only about 18 months after 8.1.
Ah. So Microsoft's being disingenuous with their statements about the age of the operating system.

As to 8 being unusable, I'll buy that - we bought my daughter a cheap HP laptop that came with Windows 8 preinstalled, and it was so slow and unresponsive that she refused to use it - we upgraded to 10 via the free download and it's like a whole new machine.
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  #14  
Old 05 January 2016, 01:04 PM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coughdrops View Post
I wonder if next they'll try to sabotage Windows 7 with malware updates?
If you're accusing them of exaggerating and trying to frighten people, this kind of comment doesn't really help your case.

I haven't seen the show yet so I won't comment on these comments but Microsoft has been saying this kind of thing with every new operating system for a long time. They've also been very careful, unlike some other software companies, of trying not to break anything that businesses around the world rely on. So I think overyonder's point has some truth to it: they're pretty much 'damned' if they do and 'damned' if they don't.

Anyway, every platform has its merits and demerits and no platform is evil even though many developers have done (what I would call) ethically challenging things. In the end, you're just going to have to vote with your wallet. There are lots and lots of good cheap (even free!) OSs out there. Burn a CD or USB. Make an install image. Heck, you don't even have to get rid of your old platform if you don't want to. I don't think "OMG Water is Wet!" is very helpful. Not this late in the game. (Personally, I find myself using Windows more and more I don't like many things about it but, again, that is true of every platform. Many years ago, I loved using Apple - even though I never really disliked Windows - but it just gets worse and worse...)

Last edited by ganzfeld; 05 January 2016 at 01:22 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05 January 2016, 01:37 PM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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So here's the conversation mentioned in the OP:
https://twit.tv/shows/windows-weekly/episodes/445

If you skip to minute 28 or so, it's clear that the "at your own risk" comment is more-or-less a joke and that the "10 years old" comment is not necessarily about Windows 7 - at least not yet. Otherwise, it's a rather innocuous talk about the benefits and demerits of platform evolution. Lots of other interesting things in this episode.
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  #16  
Old 05 January 2016, 01:53 PM
Coughdrops Coughdrops is offline
 
 
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This post of Troberg in the last Win10 thread is a whole list of reasons not to trust Microsoft. http://message.snopes.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=18

Some people are saying it's overblown, some are saying that Microsoft is now just an arm of the NSA.

First I hear they're installing a swarming protocol on my win 7 that will allow them to steal my bandwidth, massive memory-hogging Win10 downloads that you can't get rid of, along with spyware to monitor my hardrive (why?). And all of it you cannot opt-out or delete. Add to that Microsoft being tight-lipped and trying to hide the updates that contain all of this and they have given me every reason to assume they're up to no good. I've had updates off for months, even though I know it's Russian Roulette, because I don't think I can trust Microsoft. If the updates and new things weren't something sinister would they have to try and sneak them in or trick people into accepting them?

Edit: Microsoft desperately trying to spy on 7 and 8 users: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...and-windows-8/

Last edited by Coughdrops; 05 January 2016 at 02:21 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05 January 2016, 02:29 PM
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Psihala Psihala is offline
 
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When you get to the point that you're really paranoid about MS, I've got a rock in the desert that I've had reserved for a long time that I'm not using.

~Psihala
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  #18  
Old 05 January 2016, 02:45 PM
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Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coughdrops View Post
massive memory-hogging Win10 downloads that you can't get rid of,
Yes, you can.

Seaboe
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  #19  
Old 05 January 2016, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coughdrops View Post
Some people are saying it's overblown, some are saying that Microsoft is now just an arm of the NSA.
Well, OK, again, at last count I think there are around 100 free and/or open source OSs. Many of them are extremely capable and easy to use. (I think Troberg used to like Ubuntu but don't quote me on that. It's a very nice OS. If I felt the need to switch to Linux for daily use, I'd probably use Mint.)

There are also lots of tools to monitor your system so you can see what's happening.

In the end, if you don't trust any of those then I don't see why you'd trust the hardware either. You can go out into the desert (Psihala's rock is out there but you haven't ever even met), get yourself some buckets of silicon dioxide, and start work on your own semiconductors.
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  #20  
Old 05 January 2016, 08:51 PM
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...and-windows-8/

I love how you link to this article. Ever checked out all the scripts they load every time you look at their page? It's this enormous blob of code running in your computer, written by thousands of programmers who you apparently trust more than MS for some reason. The page won't even load if you turn that off. Lessee... Holy... %&! Something like thirty external trackers every time you visit that page and you want me to worry about the operating system??
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