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  #21  
Old 23 September 2015, 09:23 PM
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According to this the team who found the VW problem tested a BMW as well during their study. The diesel BMW did fine on the emissions tests in California. Now to find a used one.

Ali
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  #22  
Old 23 September 2015, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ali Infree View Post
According to this the team who found the VW problem tested a BMW as well during their study. The diesel BMW did fine on the emissions tests in California. Now to find a used one.

Ali
There are a few out there. They only started importing the BMW diesels in 2009 (from what I can find) in their SUV's, but in 2010 for the cars.

OY
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  #23  
Old 24 September 2015, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Ali Infree View Post
Even as a WVU alum, I have to say that this was an interesting piece of cheating on VW's part.
I suspect they did about the same thing as Cummins and others did 20 years ago and just disabled EGR when the ECM knew it wasn't doing an EPA certification cycle. So not only did they egregiously violate EPA regs, they did so by repeating the same crimes that got a dozen companies busted for around $1 billion in fines and civil suits back in 1998. That scared every company except VW into keeping compliance, and that precedence makes it very difficult for VW to negotiate for much below the maximum penalty.

There was nothing clever in this; the money from the Cummins et al. settlement got a lot of academic and government funding for independent emissions studies, and VW went with this fraud while they knew (1) the penalties for doing so were substantial and (2) a lot of money was going into construction of academic/government emissions equipment to fund studies that would catch further violations.
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  #24  
Old 24 September 2015, 09:12 PM
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The UK is to launch its own investigation into the VW tests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34352548

As 50% of all car sales in the UK are now diesel this is important.

The BBC published an interesting article on why America has been shying away from diesel cars.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34329596
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  #25  
Old 24 September 2015, 11:38 PM
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The article is pretty good though it misses one point why American traditionally hated diesels in passenger cars... a diesel sounds like a poorly built toy when it idles. The sound of the car has always been a factor in what Americans will buy.

Fuel economy has never really been a big factor in the minds of the typical American car buyer. Yes they want better mileage cars when gas is at $4/gallon but as soon as the gas goes back to $2/gallon ($0.50/Litre) the sale of low MPG vehicles soars again. The highly efficient cars available in much of the rest of the world won't sell well in the US because US car buyers won't tolerate the wimpy performance that the high MPG cars have.

In the US the biggest selling car is, and has been for decades, a pick-up truck. That truck weighs nearly twice what a highly efficient car weighs in the rest of the world. Well, at least the trucks used to. Pickups were (are) so heavy that after many decades in production Ford trimmed 700 pounds off the curb weight of the F-150 between the 2014 and 2015 model years. A smart car weighs about 1800 pounds.
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  #26  
Old 24 September 2015, 11:53 PM
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That's in part because gas is far more expensive in places like Europe.
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  #27  
Old 25 September 2015, 12:06 AM
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That's in part because gas is far more expensive in places like Europe.
Yep. And the difference in price is due to many factors, including what the various gov'ts decide to tax.
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  #28  
Old 25 September 2015, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
The article is pretty good though it misses one point why American traditionally hated diesels in passenger cars... a diesel sounds like a poorly built toy when it idles. The sound of the car has always been a factor in what Americans will buy.
Tell that to the owners of diesel powered pickups. They seem to revel in the sound of them. It seem to be the only reason they tend to leave them idling away when they really don't need to.

Last edited by DrRocket; 25 September 2015 at 01:20 AM.
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  #29  
Old 25 September 2015, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
The article is pretty good though it misses one point why American traditionally hated diesels in passenger cars... a diesel sounds like a poorly built toy when it idles. The sound of the car has always been a factor in what Americans will buy.
Yes and no. A stronger indictment of diesel was the lack of performance you mention later on. Old diesels, while having a nice slug of torque low down, were pathetically slow - the Rabbit diesel could barely keep up with suburban traffic, much less be driven onto the highway. Old Mercedes diesels weren't much better - you could cruise on the highway in one but it took a while to get there. On-ramps were an adventure. Add on the noise, the smoking exhaust, and the fact that they cost more upfront and you got a package that was both unpleasant and unsuited to the typical American motorist.

Modern diesels, of course, are worlds better in this regard, as well as being quiet and not having a built in smokescreen. But people have long memories, and combined with the expense of a modern diesel over an equivalent gasoline powered car, keeps the market small.
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  #30  
Old 25 September 2015, 01:41 AM
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One of the first cars I drove was a Rabbit diesel. It wasn't all that bad. It certainly could keep up with suburban traffic and be driven on the highway.
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  #31  
Old 25 September 2015, 10:31 AM
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Friends of mine had a Chevy Chevette diesel sometime in the late 80s/early 90s. It definitely lived up to its nickname of "Shove It".
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  #32  
Old 25 September 2015, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadsterboy View Post
Yes and no. A stronger indictment of diesel was the lack of performance you mention later on. Old diesels, while having a nice slug of torque low down, were pathetically slow - the Rabbit diesel could barely keep up with suburban traffic, much less be driven onto the highway. Old Mercedes diesels weren't much better - you could cruise on the highway in one but it took a while to get there. On-ramps were an adventure. Add on the noise, the smoking exhaust, and the fact that they cost more upfront and you got a package that was both unpleasant and unsuited to the typical American motorist.
Add to that the fact that GM produced a line of notoriously unreliable diesel powered vehicles in the 70s and 80s. Many folks in my parents generation swore they would never buy another diesel powered car because of the problems they had with those cars.
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  #33  
Old 25 September 2015, 03:12 PM
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From my experience, GM's gasoline powered vehicles of the '80's weren't that good either. But as gasoline engines were well established, problems with them weren't attributed to the type of engine, but to poor manufacturing.
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  #34  
Old 26 September 2015, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
From my experience, GM's gasoline powered vehicles of the '80's weren't that good either. But as gasoline engines were well established, problems with them weren't attributed to the type of engine, but to poor manufacturing.
My dad had one of the Delta 88's, the cause of the mistrust. He had the engine replace twice in the first 100K miles under warranty then received a couple grand in the class action lawsuit settlement. The problem of course wasn't that it was a diesel, the problem was they basically took a gasoline engine and doubled the compression so it could run as a diesel. (This was all initiated because of the first US gas "crisis".) Only problem is that the block wasn't fundamentally strong enough for that and the head bolts stretched, heads warped, gaskets leaked, etc. Clearly diesels aren't bad, big trucks have used them for many decades, the problem was US car makers couldn't build even a semi-decent diesel.

At the same time the rare import that had a diesel engine wasn't all that reliable either, though generally not for engine problems.
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  #35  
Old 26 September 2015, 03:10 AM
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Here's the funny thing. That GM diesel was based on Oldsmobiles' Rocket 350 engine. While it made a poor diesel engine, Oldsmobile enthusiasts (I am one of the them, have two mid-60's Cutlasses) discovered that the beefed up engine block, with some minor machining modifications and gasoline heads , makes a great base for a gasoline powered performance engine for your Olds.

They've actually become tougher to find, and a bit expensive to buy once you find them.
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  #36  
Old 26 September 2015, 08:36 AM
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Wasn't that also the time of the Cadillac 4-6-8 engine that would run more or less cylinders depending on power demands? IMS, Cadillac recalled all of them and switched them to standard 8 cylinder engines.
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  #37  
Old 28 September 2015, 08:01 AM
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The Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt (Federal Office of Motor Traffic) has announced that Volkswagen has to submit plans on how to correct the issue with the 2.8 million cars affected in Germany until next week. If "binding plans" are not submitted by 10/7/15, the Office will revoke the permission for all affected care, making it illegal not only to sell, but also to drive them on German streets.
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  #38  
Old 28 September 2015, 09:00 AM
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Germany VW staff, supplier warned of emissions test cheating years ago: reports

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0RR0LB20150927
Quote:
Volkswagen's own staff and one of its suppliers warned years ago about software designed to thwart emissions tests, two German newspapers reported on Sunday, as the automaker tries to uncover whether its executives knew about the cheating.
According to Engadget, these are the two quoted articles in the Reuters article. Please note both are in German.
Brian
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  #39  
Old 28 September 2015, 01:32 PM
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Both articles are reporting basically the same (and I've seen it reported elsewhere). The "Bild" newspaper in the first link is to Germany what the "Sun" is to Britain, though.

The Reuters article is correct in it's citations and is reporting more in addition, including this sentences on what I mentioned above:
Quote:
In Volkswagen's home market Germany, where 2.8 million of the 11 million affected diesel cars are on the road, the government watchdog KBA has set an Oct. 7 deadline for the company to present a plan to bring diesel emissions into line with the law, Bild reported.

The transport ministry said the KBA had written to VW demanding it "commit to concrete steps and a timetable" to ensure its cars in Germany meet requirements.
I'm very interested to see whether Volkswagen manages to meet that deadline, or whether from Oct. 8 most of the 2.8 million VW-Diesel drivers are forced to hitchhike to work...
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  #40  
Old 28 September 2015, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Enrico View Post
If "binding plans" are not submitted by 10/7/15, the Office will revoke the permission for all affected care, making it illegal not only to sell, but also to drive them on German streets.
Kind of hard on the people who bought them in good faith, some of whom may well not have the money to buy another, especially while they can't sell this one.

Is there excellent public transport in all of Germany, including rural areas? (Genuine question: I have no idea.)
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