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  #21  
Old 09 November 2014, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
A private business can't impose a "fine". And if they did the other party could simply ignore it. What are they gonna do, call the imaginary police?
It would be a penalty, not a fine. Penalty clauses are common in contracts. And no, you don't call the police to enforce a contract. But there are ways to do it.
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  #22  
Old 10 November 2014, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeeCD View Post
According to their website, Costco is open every day except for Thanksgiving and Christmas days.
http://www.costco.com/hours-and-holiday-closures.html
You're right. My faulty memory is based on going to my local store and only seeing advertised hours for mon-sat. I would have sworn that they were closed on sunday.
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  #23  
Old 10 November 2014, 01:39 AM
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I think they might have been at one point, but that would have been back in the 90s.
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  #24  
Old 10 November 2014, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
A private business can't impose a "fine". And if they did the other party could simply ignore it. What are they gonna do, call the imaginary police?
They can call it whatever they want in the contract. Technically, it is "liquidated damages," and private businesses (as well as individuals) can agree in contracts to be "fined" if they don't comply with the terms of the contract. And if by "imaginary police" you mean, "can the mall sue the store for breaching their contract and not paying the fine?" then the answer is yes. So, yes, a store is obligated to comply if they agreed to be obligated, and to pay the mall if they don't comply, and they can't, in those circumstances, just count on the mall not wanting to kick them out.

ETA: Or, what Lainie said.
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  #25  
Old 10 November 2014, 04:53 AM
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Police

In any case, yes, do read the franchise contract before you sign it. It may include penalties. (It might even include imaginary police if you haven't read it!)
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  #26  
Old 10 November 2014, 03:11 PM
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The contract in question wasn't a franchise, but you should read any contract before you sign it, of course. But if this is something new this year, I wonder if it's a new application of a more general term about the mall setting opening and closing times.
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  #27  
Old 10 November 2014, 04:10 PM
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That would be my guess, too. I doubt the mall owners would want a contract to state specific opening and closing times like 7 am - 9 pm M-F, etc. There is probably a general clause that the stores that do not have separate entrances will be open or closed when the mall is. There are probably some stipulations like the mall will not open 24/7 or that the mall must notify stores 10 business days in advance, but I don't know that the contract would state specific days that the mall would be closed or opened.
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  #28  
Old 10 November 2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Many years ago I gather there were laws against opening on Sundays; but if so, they're long gone, except for some state liquor store laws. I expect even if they were still on the books it would be knocked down by the courts under the religious separation clause.
There are ways around that. Used to be illegal to have a car dealership open on Sundays in Utah. A little dealership fought it, so the legislature passed a new law. Car dealerships had to be closed one weekend day so that the employees could be with their families. The dealerships are now free to decide if they wanted to be closed on Saturday or Sunday.
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  #29  
Old 10 November 2014, 10:19 PM
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There are plenty of blue laws that are still in effect in New Jersey--you can't shop in Paramus on a Sunday, and you can't buy a car on a Sunday anywhere in the state.
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  #30  
Old 10 November 2014, 11:05 PM
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Can't buy a car or carryout alcohol on Sunday in Indiana, can't buy cold beer anywhere except a liquor store on any day.
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  #31  
Old 11 November 2014, 03:15 AM
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At the federal level, the Supreme Court has held that Sunday blue laws don't violate the Establishment Clause, or the Free Exercise Clause. Basically there are legitimate secular purposes for having a unifying day off, and it doesn't nullify those purposes that blue laws were originally about Christian church attendance, etc.
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  #32  
Old 11 November 2014, 03:35 AM
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I find that reasoning to be a bit on the convoluted side.
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  #33  
Old 11 November 2014, 04:02 AM
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I don't find it especially convoluted. I also don't find it especially convincing, though.

More info here, if you're interested: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/blue-laws
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  #34  
Old 11 November 2014, 08:06 PM
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Roll eyes Two Calif. Women Camp-Out In Front Of Best Buy, 22 Days Ahead Of Black Friday Novembe

Two California women have already arrived at a Best Buy to begin their annual camp-out – 22 days ahead of Black Friday sales.

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/11...-black-friday/
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  #35  
Old 11 November 2014, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
It would be a penalty, not a fine. Penalty clauses are common in contracts. And no, you don't call the police to enforce a contract. But there are ways to do it.
True enough but given the state of most malls I doubt they have much real leverage. I can certainly imagine...

BigBox store manager at the mall meeting: "Sales and traffic are down, corporate is considering closing this particular store down."
Mall Manager: Oh, by the way you must open such and such hours on a day you would normally be closed or we will enforce the contract and charge you a fee.
BigBox store manager at the mall meeting: "Sales and traffic are down, corporate is considering closing this particular store down."
Mall Manager: "uh, never mind."
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  #36  
Old 11 November 2014, 08:31 PM
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So, they are going to sign a contract and then just fail to comply? Not a smart way to do business. Better to negotiate the contract you want in the first place, if you have that kind of leverage. I'm sure if they don't want to stay open, they just pay the penalty and consider it a cost of business.
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  #37  
Old 11 November 2014, 08:39 PM
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Here's the original post. it says "all the stores," not "all the big box stores."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venus View Post
The mall i work in is forcing all stores to open at 6pm on thanksgiving. A lot of the various store managers threw a fit but the mall is imposing fines on any store that doesn't open on time.
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  #38  
Old 12 November 2014, 12:01 AM
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Those evil mall owners. It's almost as if they're trying to stay in business.
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  #39  
Old 12 November 2014, 12:26 AM
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I assume that was not directed at me. I have made no criticism of the mall owners.
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  #40  
Old 12 November 2014, 02:35 AM
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Your assumption is correct.
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