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Old 18 January 2013, 11:56 AM
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Other then a symbolic act is there any reason for a President (or Governor, etc) to veto a bill that already has been passed by Congress with the necessary number of votes to over ride the veto? Is it common for the pre-veto and post-veto votes to be different?
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Old 18 January 2013, 01:20 PM
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I think the president has 10 days to sign or veto, so if the president used those 10 days to campaign against the bill and try to change public opinion, maybe by the time he vetoed it congress members would realize that law was not supported and change their vote. Not sure if it has happened.

Is punnet (as in a punnet of strawberries) not commonly used in the US? People keep trying to correct me to 'pint', but that's not what I mean. But I grew up moving between US and Australia so sometimes I don't realize which words are specific to which... Should have seen the looks I got the first time I said some instruction I got at work here in the US was like 'Chinese whispers'!
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Old 18 January 2013, 01:22 PM
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House Joint Resolution 64 passed the House via voice vote (which generally means a large majority if not unanimity) and passed the Senate via unanimous vote. After Obama vetoed it, it failed in the House by a vote of 143 yeas to 245 neys.

Can I ask a stupid question even thought the title is singular, not plural?

ETA: I've never heard of a "punnet" of anything.
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Old 18 January 2013, 01:46 PM
Nick Theodorakis Nick Theodorakis is offline
 
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The only thing close to a "punnet" that I've heard of is the "Punnett Square" used in genetics classes and textbooks. But that's with two "t's" (and is named for someone).

Nick
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Old 18 January 2013, 01:47 PM
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I have also not heard "punnet"; although I grow and sell strawberries, usually selling them in pints and quarts. The container they're sold in is often called a "till" among those who buy and/or sell the containers while they're empty; but I haven't heard that used by customers for the container that's full of fruit, and didn't learn the word "till" until I found myself in a position to need to buy a bale of them.

ETA: as far as the instructions you got at work: try "like a game of Telephone". I think that might be the image you were after -- everybody sits in a circle and one person whispers a sentence into the ear of the next person; after it's worked its way all the way around the circle by that technique the last person says out loud the sentence as they think they heard it?
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Old 18 January 2013, 01:47 PM
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Based on my google results, it looks like "punnet" is a type of basket or container, not a unit of measure. We generally talk about buying fruit by unit of measure -- we'd buy a pint or quart of strawberries, usually.
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Old 18 January 2013, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
Other then a symbolic act is there any reason for a President (or Governor, etc) to veto a bill that already has been passed by Congress with the necessary number of votes to over ride the veto? Is it common for the pre-veto and post-veto votes to be different?
To add to GenYus's comment, there are lots of times that bills will come up which a president has already vowed to veto, but they want to make their statement. On the pre-veto vote, there will often be lots of members of Congress who will vote for a bill because it is popular with a voting bloc at home. Then when the president vetoes the bill, members of his own party will vote with the party and the override will fail. That way the member of Congress can go to constituencies back home and say s/he voted for it and against it, depending on whom he is addressing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocool View Post
I think the president has 10 days to sign or veto, so if the president used those 10 days to campaign against the bill and try to change public opinion, maybe by the time he vetoed it congress members would realize that law was not supported and change their vote. Not sure if it has happened.
Sure it has happened. I don't have specific examples, but they would not be hard to find. I know that Gerald Ford vetoed a LOT of bills for his time in office, mostly to curb overspending, and on reconsideration by the Congress, they could no longer get an override majority, so the bill would be moderated and passed in a form the president would sign. BTW, Ford's vetoes got overridden a number of times as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocool View Post
Is punnet (as in a punnet of strawberries) not commonly used in the US? People keep trying to correct me to 'pint', but that's not what I mean. But I grew up moving between US and Australia so sometimes I don't realize which words are specific to which... Should have seen the looks I got the first time I said some instruction I got at work here in the US was like 'Chinese whispers'!
No, punnet is not known to me, and I have lived in a wide range of areas east of the Mississippi. I also do not recall seeing it in magazines, newspapers, etc. It may still be standard U.S. English, but obscure. After all, nowadays almost no one would know what a 'peck' is, beyond use in the Peter Piper tongue-twister (or is that Peter Pepper? - I saw it that way for the very first time recently).

As for 'Chinese whispers', that is more commonly know as 'telephone' in the USA. People have become so suspicious of any national or ethnic reference, particularly in pretentious areas, that a term like that immediately raises hackles. If it is the same as what we call 'telephone' (i.e., someone whispers a phrase to one person, then they repeat it to the next person, as well as they heard it, etc. until you see how garbled it got), then it is not even either stereotyped or derogatory. It would just be a comparison of how Chinese is totally unrecognizable to English-speakers, in the same way that we might say 'it's all Greek to me.' It is no insult or stereotype to Greeks to say the language makes no sense to those who have not learned it.
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Old 18 January 2013, 01:55 PM
Nick Theodorakis Nick Theodorakis is offline
 
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People of Greek descent generally do not object to the phrase "Greek to me," but then the word "barbarian" has its etymology in the Greek word for those who didn't speak Greek.

Nick

ETA: BTW, Greeks would say, "It's Chinese to me." Or at least used to.
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Old 18 January 2013, 02:34 PM
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This is a hypothetical stupid question...

In a world like that in the Toy Story movies, would pet toys come to life as well? Do catnip mice scurry around and play while the cat's away? Or maybe pet toys are the pets of human toys, in a mimicry of the human/pet relationship?
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Old 18 January 2013, 02:37 PM
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Now there's a creepy thought. Especially because most catnip toys don't have legs, so they'd just sit there, immobile, waiting for the cat to come "play" with them.
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Old 18 January 2013, 02:39 PM
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Mr. Potato-Head's non-articulated legs became mobile when he came to life. Maybe catnip mice squirm around by flopping their bodies forwards.

That's even creepier... the mental image of a bunch of catnip mice squirming around like worms...
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Old 18 January 2013, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
As for 'Chinese whispers', that is more commonly know as 'telephone' in the USA. People have become so suspicious of any national or ethnic reference, particularly in pretentious areas, that a term like that immediately raises hackles.
I'm 52 and have been playing telephone for about 45 years. I never heard it referred to as 'Chinese whispers'. My suspicion is that the latter was a regional name.

Seaboe
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Old 18 January 2013, 02:42 PM
Nick Theodorakis Nick Theodorakis is offline
 
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I've only heard it used by people from the UK, or from people who like to use phrases more commonly used in the UK.

Nick
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Old 18 January 2013, 02:42 PM
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My experience is the same. I don't think it's a widespread term that's been wiped out by political correctness.

ETA:

Quote:
Chinese whispers[1] (or telephone in the United States[2]) is a game played around the world, in which one person whispers a message to another, which is passed through a line of people until the last player announces the message to the entire group. Errors typically accumulate in the retellings, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly, from the one uttered by the first. Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it.
Wiki
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Old 18 January 2013, 03:19 PM
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I've only heard "Chinese whispers" here, though I knew that it was the same game that Americans call "Telephone". There's a blog post about it here http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.bl...telephone.html

I'd use "punnet" for the basket you put fruit in when you are buying it "pick-your-own" but I wouldn't use it for the plastic boxes of fruit you get in supermarkets (which is where I get my fruit from). Fruit here has to be sold by net weight or number - so you could buy a kilogram of potatoes, or six apples, or one bunch of bananas, but you can't buy fruit by the pint.
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Old 18 January 2013, 03:24 PM
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Regulations aren't as strict here. Most fruits (and vegetables) are sold by the weight or count, but berries tend to be sold in pints or quarts.
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Old 18 January 2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
nowadays almost no one would know what a 'peck' is, beyond use in the Peter Piper tongue-twister


Produce is sometimes still sold by the peck here, for people who want to buy in quantity for canning or freezing. Or, for that matter, for pickling; including peppers.

I'll agree that a lot of people don't know the term, though; while some customers will ask if I've got something by the peck, others will ask what the term means when I offer it that way.

People who know what a peck is also generally know what a bushel is, and requests for, say, a bushel of canning tomatoes aren't unusual.
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Old 18 January 2013, 03:34 PM
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I've heard the phrase "Chinese whispers" to refer to rampant (and often very negative) rumors, especially when in a workplace setting but never to a game.
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Old 19 January 2013, 01:04 AM
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Damien, thanks for putting me onto the Skyview app for my iPhone.

Very cool. It's a bargain at that price.

Even shows you where the sattelites are!

Works great on my iPad as well!
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Old 19 January 2013, 04:12 AM
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So my understanding is people with disorders can bring liquids in larger than appropriate volumes onto airplanes.. For example diabetics can bring juice. Also as far as I know the TSA cannot demand documentation of your disorder(s).

So, given that (and assuming from the get go that an evil terrorist can't get enough terrorism liquid into the standard bag/bottle combination you get), can't a terrorist just say they are diabetic (or any of the other exempted groups) thus rendering the whole security thing moot?

Beyond that.. If I can bring as many 3.4oz containers as can fit into a 1qt bag, and we assume in most cases this will be more than one, why can't I just bring one 3.5oz container? For that matter why not just have one overall limit rather than this irritating "Lots of small containers and as many as you can fit in a specific sized bag".

Why not just say "no more than Xoz of liquid" and you can bring either one Xoz bottle or several X-y oz bottles? After all, the terrorists could split up their terrorist liquid into several smaller bottles just as easily as they could put it all into one larger one no?

Much of the 'safety regulations' the TSA puts out to me seem like they have some actual reasonable goal, even if they are carried out in ways that are controversial (backscatter 'see ya nekked' machines) but the liquid one just makes zero sense.

For it to be reasonable the following things must be true in at least most cases:

1) Whatever these terrorist liquids they are worried about have to be rendered mostly harmless if you have less than what you can typically fit into a quart sized container.

2) These terrorist liquids cannot be mixed and are useless unless you have at least 3.5oz of each.

3) No evil, murdering, terrorist would ever consider lying about an extremely common disorder/disease to be exempted from these rules.

ETA: So I guess my question is.. What's the point? It's not something that is mostly useless but at least is fairly easy to deal with (taking off your shoes), it's not something that is arguably useful but controversial (backscatter machines, armed guards at the gates, etc), it's something that is a pain and wasteful and so far as I can tell (though I'm no expert on terrorist liquids) has basically zero chance of ever doing anything useful and seems like it's almost built to be as such (as opposed to a good idea but with a fatal flaw). Saying you can have Xoz liquid might make sense, saying you can have X 3.4oz or fewer bottles makes less sense, and saying you can have as many 3.4oz or fewer bottles as you can fit into a one quart bag makes absolutely no sense.

Last edited by Mickey Blue; 19 January 2013 at 04:18 AM.
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