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Old 06 July 2008, 03:15 AM
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Icon215 Tablet ignites debate on messiah and resurrection

A three-foot-tall tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew that scholars believe dates from the decades just before the birth of Jesus is causing a quiet stir in biblical and archaeological circles, especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/...ca/06stone.php
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Old 06 July 2008, 04:17 AM
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Wasn't such a prophecy already recorded somewhere in the Old Testament?
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Old 06 July 2008, 04:32 AM
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Not exactly. Mark cribbed a lot from The Book of Daniel, including the "three days" motif, which is why he repeats the idea of "three days," even though noon on Friday to Sunday morning isn't even quite two days. But the explicit idea of a messiah who dies and is ressurrected isn't really in the so-called "Old Testament." In fact, the idea of a messiah who dies at all isn't even there, but the basic idea of a messiah isn't all that well developed in what Jews call the Tanakh. The messiah, well, "mythology," if you will, developed a lot in the time between the last book of the Tanakh, and the time of Jesus, but exactly what ideas were floating around, and what stages they went through hasn't been recorded, which is why this tablet is so exciting.
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Old 07 July 2008, 05:14 AM
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Yeah, if I remember correctly (and I probably don't, one reason being that I'm on medication and the other people that it's nearing bedtime), while the Old Testament did say a few things that indicated Jesus as being the Messiah, it never mentioned anything about three days.

But, OTT: RivkaChaya, it's cool to see another Snopester who's from the Bloomington area! Hi!
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Old 07 July 2008, 08:18 AM
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NatGeo had a program on a while back called (IIRC) "Rivals of Jesus" that pointed out there were many "messiahs" around that time. They all had the same magic powers and some of them rose from the dead.
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Old 07 July 2008, 07:16 PM
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Silas Sparkhammer Silas Sparkhammer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
NatGeo had a program on a while back called (IIRC) "Rivals of Jesus" that pointed out there were many "messiahs" around that time. They all had the same magic powers and some of them rose from the dead.
Many people have speculated that John the Baptist was a would-be messiah. The earlier of the Gospels emphasizes John's submission to Jesus -- not being worthy to wash his feet, etc. The later Gospels don't hit that point so hard. It could be that, in the first few years A.D., there was still a competing John cult, but that it died out and thus it was not necessary to show it as an accessory to the Jesus cult.

In my opinion, John's instant submission to Jesus always rang false. It would be like Sun Myung Moon instantly acknowledging Scientology as the superior truth, or, perhaps less uncomfortably, as Oral Roberts acknowleding Jerry Fallwell as the superior theologian. The jealousy of preachers makes Zeus and Odin appear humble!

Silas
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Old 07 July 2008, 07:33 PM
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I'mNotDedalus I'mNotDedalus is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
The messiah, well, "mythology," if you will, developed a lot in the time between the last book of the Tanakh, and the time of Jesus, but exactly what ideas were floating around, and what stages they went through hasn't been recorded, which is why this tablet is so exciting.
There are the Dead Sea Scrolls, which alters the myth to include two messiahs: one by Word, the other by sword. But when you say the mythological structure of Jewish messianism developed more "between the last book of the Tanakh...", do you mean in ways beyond Isaiah and Ezekiel? And those two primary sources are from the Nevi'im. There's very small bits about the messiah myth in the Ketuvim (i.e., Chronicles), but they just appear to reaffirm what was already put in Isaiah.
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Old 07 July 2008, 08:39 PM
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RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
 
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Yeah; I'm working from memory, but it's pretty clear that messianic thought continued to develop inter-testamentally. I know a few people who think that Isaiah and Ezekiel are so strongly reiterated in the Talmud, to refute any ideas that had developed since. Yes, there is a lot in the Dead Sea scrolls, but since they are the product (most likely) of an isolated community, it's hard to know how much they draw on popular ideas of the time.
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