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  #61  
Old 16 November 2014, 02:40 PM
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Avril Avril is offline
 
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thorny locust makes a lot of good points. This is the sort of discussion I was hoping we might have. But I also wonder just how many people really do go shopping on Thanksgiving, and how many of those people actually buy things that are profitable to the store, rather than just the doorbuster deal. It just strikes me as more likely that the sort of person who has to be there when the doors open--to the extent of camping out in front of the store--is not the sort of person who will then aimlessly buy something else while buying their super cheap TV or whatever.

In other words, how much would a store really lose by losing out on that business?

I suspect that despite how much it is, the season at large would still be a profitable one no matter what. The idea of seizing all profits at any cost being standard practice is troubling.

Think of it another way: my workplace could get an extra day of work out of me if it required me to work on Thanksgiving. It would definitely be in some of their interests to do so. Obviously, they have other interests, so I don't have to go to work (and what is more I get paid). I think this has more to do with class than it has to do with actual cost/benefit analysis.

Of course, because it is not standard for the people who do my sort of job to work on holidays, I could just get a different job (in theory) if they did require me to work. But what if the entire industry changed? Paid holidays, vacations, etc. are all standard expectations of people in my social class. But a day off--even an unpaid one--is apparently too much to ask for the underclasses, if the Big Mighty Corporation might take a hit for it.

Target will not go out of business if it closes on one flipping day.
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  #62  
Old 16 November 2014, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
The idea of seizing all profits at any cost being standard practice is troubling.

[snip]

I think this has more to do with class than it has to do with actual cost/benefit analysis.
I agree on both points. But IMO, the open-on-TG issue is a relatively minor aspect of a much larger issue. I'm pretty sure lack of paid sick time has a much greater negative impact on the same population of workers.
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  #63  
Old 16 November 2014, 03:22 PM
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Sylvanz Sylvanz is online now
 
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Bingo Avril, you get the kewpie doll. Just getting another job if you don't like it. Is pretty much a slim and none chance for most people who work retail. I'm lucky I got an .80 raise when the state min. went up and I get double time on certain holidays. I was ummm ambivalent about working 9 hours Thanks Giving, but I need the money too...sooo...eh. No Thanks Giving dinner for us this year.

However, most people that work in my industry don't get double time and many never get raises. And at least in our little corner of retail holiday pay is unheard of. In fact, most of the corporations they work for had a freakin' case of the vapors when the minimum wage went up.

At least our store has been open 24/7 every day of the year since the beginning. We aren't blind sided when we do have to work.
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  #64  
Old 17 November 2014, 03:14 AM
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It seems like the bigger problem is unfair curtailing of worker organization and generally unfair practices. Given the choice to complain about this issue or some other , my guess is that many other issues are of more pressing to most retail workers. But if they don't have any way of organizing or getting their voices heard then there's no way of knowing.
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  #65  
Old 17 November 2014, 02:43 PM
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I don't pretend to know which issues retail workers are/should be concerned about. I rather think you shouldn't either. There's also the fact that even we retail workers can be concerned about great big issues and little teeny issues, and we can also be concerned, and think about many issues all at the same time, as incomprehensible as that seems. I think many of the people who work in the industry really don't need someone explaining to them what they should be worried about. Is there a socio-economic version of "mansplaining"?

As far as unions etc. I doubt that is going to happen in the retail industry very soon. Particularly in my section of it.
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  #66  
Old 17 November 2014, 09:56 PM
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I understand your point.
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  #67  
Old 21 November 2014, 12:10 AM
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I'm getting to a point where I'm not really understanding what the fuss is about with the retailers which are opening earlier and earlier for "Black Friday" this year, as--for the past week--I've been seeing and hearing ads from dozens of retailers (including many planning to be open on Thanksgiving for "Black Friday") promoting PRE-Black Friday sales for the whole week before Thanksgiving.

Seriously, what's the point of being open all (or even part) of Thanksgiving Day to get a "jump" on Black Friday money if you're going to have a week of sales even before Thanksgiving? And, more pointedly, what's the point when you're advertising your pre-Thanksgiving sales as "pre-Black Friday" sales?

Well, I suppose if you're a retailer and you just want to screw over your employees for the sake of making a few more dollars--or you're just proving what kind of a dick you can be as an employer, then it makes sense. Otherwise, it really doesn't. I mean, are you REALLY making enough money to cover the wholesale cost of the merchandise that sells PLUS the cost of operating the store all those extra hours PLUS the employees' wages AND still showing a decent profit? In ONE single day?
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  #68  
Old 18 October 2016, 03:18 PM
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We seem to have had at least two threads on this. I guess, if I'm going to resurrect one, it ought to be the one that's both more recent and shorter.

More retailers are staying home for Thanksgiving Day

Quote:
some mall operators and retailers that had opened their doors on Thanksgiving Day in recent years are reversing that trend. Itís not just because they want to let employees enjoy the holiday with friends and family but also because the costs of opening on the holiday were bigger than the benefits.
Maybe I was wrong about its not paying any company to break ranks in the other direction. Or maybe they're counting on most others joining them, at least within the next year or two.
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  #69  
Old 18 October 2016, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Consumers who went shopping on Turkey Day didn’t spend additional money overall but rather made purchases they would have made anyway on the following day, according to Amanda Nicholson, professor of retail practice at Syracuse University’s Whitman School of Management.
Did retailers genuinely believe that people who would have shopped on Black Friday were going to "double dip" and shop on both days instead? I'm no financial genius - far from it - but even the dumbest of us tends to know there is only so much money (or credit card money) to go around and what gets spent at the holiday sale today does not get spent there tomorrow.
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  #70  
Old 18 October 2016, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Did retailers genuinely believe that people who would have shopped on Black Friday were going to "double dip" and shop on both days instead? I'm no financial genius - far from it - but even the dumbest of us tends to know there is only so much money (or credit card money) to go around and what gets spent at the holiday sale today does not get spent there tomorrow.
I'm sure retailers recognize there is a fixed pot of money. Which is why opening on Thanksgiving is so important. If you don't open then that part of the pot goes to someone that is open and opening the day after the money has been spent doesn't do any good.
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  #71  
Old 18 October 2016, 05:14 PM
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Which makes sense for convenience stores and for gas stations and drug stores and the like - people need something and a store is open they're going to go rather than wait for the next day but I think what retailers are seeing now is that the people who went to the sales on Thanksgiving Day didn't shop the next day so when you factor in unhappy employees and the extra expense of staying open it ended up not being the cash cow they expected it to be.
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  #72  
Old 18 October 2016, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Which makes sense for convenience stores and for gas stations and drugs stores and the like - people need something and a store is open they're going to go rather than wait for the next day but I think what retailers are seeing now is that the people who went to the sales on Thanksgiving Day didn't shop the next day so when you factor in unhappy employees and the extra expense of staying open it ended up not being the cash cow they expected it to be.
That is probably true. But it also doesn't take into account the money that the retailers that didn't open lost.
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  #73  
Old 18 October 2016, 05:19 PM
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Opening early probably worked when only a few retailers did so and could take sales away from their competitors. But once many retailers started opening early, they were no longer taking sales from their competitors, but taking sales away from themselves.
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  #74  
Old 18 October 2016, 05:24 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Opening early probably worked when only a few retailers did so and could take sales away from their competitors. But once many retailers started opening early, they were no longer taking sales from their competitors, but taking sales away from themselves.
I don't think that is possible. Besides, having two days to sell the same quantity means your store isn't as packed as it would be on one day and you are less likely to loose sales because someone doesn't want to stand in a checkout line for an hour.

Opening for two days probably doesn't increase sales very much, if at all, compared to when all stores were closed on Thanksgiving. But not being open that one day means people buy their big screen TV gift somewhere else without even trying your store. That is definitely a loss of sales.
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  #75  
Old 18 October 2016, 05:59 PM
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Except that a lot of people--myself included--pointedly buy more things from stores that do close on Thanksgiving. I have made an extra effort to shop at Staples because they do not open on Thanksgiving, for example.
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  #76  
Old 18 October 2016, 06:27 PM
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I do wonder how many people actually do want to get up after Thanksgiving dinner and go shopping.

I'm sure the number isn't zero. But if people expect to find the same thing at the same sale price -- and still in stock -- if they wait until Friday, what percentage of them are going to do so?

And I'm not sure it's even a matter of waiting till Friday. I get sale offers in my email from companies I deal with. 20% off! 30% off! Ends tomorrow! Ends tonight! -- except that I've learned that, while that particular offer code may indeed quit working, there'll be another such email along next week or the one after. Many years ago, there used to be sales on particular types of things at particular times of year, and general sales after Christmas and maybe another couple times of year -- and if you didn't buy then, but needed something later, you'd have to pay full price for it most of the year. The sales now seem to be nearly continuous; so any given one is a whole lot less of an incentive to buy.

So maybe the rush for the early customers didn't pan out because people have gotten used to expecting there to be another sale along any minute anyway; and maybe most of the people who think it's a fun family thing to go shopping on Thanksgiving weekend would rather do so on Friday. Though in either case I'm just guessing.
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  #77  
Old 19 October 2016, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
Target will not go out of business if it closes on one flipping day.
YOU COMMUNIST!

Seriously, I don't think the CEO of Target is going to be cooking squirrel under a bridge anytime soon.
I don't get the whole Black Friday thing anyway--you can find deals year-round and that's for both conventional stores and online stores.
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