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Old 05 February 2018, 07:10 PM
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United Kingdom Having experienced the US and the UK healthcare systems...

Having experienced the US and the UK healthcare systems, here's the truth about the differences – and no, Donald Trump isn't right

Admit it: we all love having a moan about the NHS. The waiting times are appalling, hospitals are always shorthanded and GPs practically force you out the surgery after three minutes of chatting shop. No one can deny Britain’s free healthcare system is criminally underfunded and unsupported. The NHS is broken, and something has got to change.

That’s why everybody and their auntie has some bright idea about how to fix the system – and it’s also why we’ve got to be open to innovative solutions and new ways of thinking in order to move forward.

But you know who’s innovative solutions absolutely no one in the UK has ever asked for? Donald J Trump’s.

To kick off his social media week, America’s busiest orange golfer decided to take to the Twittersphere to give the planet his two cents on a massive demonstration that took place in London over the weekend. His opinion was just as uninformed and out-of-touch as you might imagine.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a8195761.html
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  #2  
Old 05 February 2018, 08:53 PM
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Considering Trump doesn't seem to understand how Obamacare works, or how any of the plans the Republicans proposed to replace it worked or what they would do, yeah, having him comment on the NHS is like me commenting on the process for making Formica. Except that I'd probably actually look it up first, at least.
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Old 05 February 2018, 08:54 PM
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Yes, I saw a similar headline about Trump's comments earlier but didn't like to look at what they'd actually been because I thought they would annoy me.

I wasn't sure if he had understood that people were protesting for the NHS, rather than against it. It seems he hadn't. (Which is what I assumed, but I still like to give people the benefit of the doubt). The reason it's "going broke" (in Trump's words) is that it's been deliberately underfunded in the past through austerity measures, and privatised through stealth through PFI (Private Finance Initiative) schemes that turn out more expensive and less flexible in the long term, by people who have similar views on the matter as he does. The people protesting are protesting against his view.

That's probably obvious to all observers except him, but it's worth pointing out.

(eta) It's got another problem at the moment in that historically a lot of its staff has been immigrants, and apparently with Brexit it's become harder to attract the necessary number of staff, but that's a different matter.

Last edited by Richard W; 05 February 2018 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 05 February 2018, 09:14 PM
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I'm not going to look it up because I've had my full dose of Trump for today but I'm sure he has his own twisted logic about how the Canadian health care system works as well and assumes that Canadians complaining are looking South to the dream .
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  #5  
Old 05 February 2018, 09:17 PM
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Here is Trump's opinion on the Canadian health care system.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...no-really.html
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  #6  
Old 05 February 2018, 09:50 PM
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Making people lose weight before elective surgery? Insane. Good to know you would never have something like that here in the USA (where my MIL's doctor told her straight up that he was going to test her for tobacco use before her heart surgery, and if she hadn't stopped smoking, he was not going to do the surgery.)
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  #7  
Old 05 February 2018, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox News
Such rationing is standard in single-payer health care systems.
Rationing is standard in our healthcare system, too. Ours is just rationed based on one's ability to pay.
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Old 05 February 2018, 10:26 PM
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That article forgot to mention how we have death panels - or have they finally figured out that's crap? Nah, must have been an oversight. .
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  #9  
Old 06 February 2018, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
That article forgot to mention how we have death panels - or have they finally figured out that's crap? Nah, must have been an oversight. .
I thought that was a product of Sarah Palin. And even most GOP members, except the Tea Party holdouts, know that Palin is nuts.
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  #10  
Old 06 February 2018, 12:40 AM
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The Australian Medicare system is brilliant. it costs most people 2% of the yearly earnings (above $18,200) and allows free healthcare for all residents.

My wife gave birth and was in hospital for 3 days - no charge.
My brother has had a kidney transplant, a liver transplant and has had several amputations (toes) - no charge.
My mother has had both hips replaced - no charge.
My best friend had cancer treatment for multiple tumors over 2 years - no charge.
There may be a wait time for non-emergency services, but rarely more than a year.

There is an option to use private health insurance if you wish to choose your hospital and doctor. This also allows you to "jump the queue".
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  #11  
Old 06 February 2018, 10:08 AM
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Meanwhile, my BIL had pretty good insurance, has been dead for about 15 months, and we are still getting bills even after telling them he died with nothing.
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  #12  
Old 06 February 2018, 11:42 AM
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Not familiar with the UK health care, but with the german one (and US)...
I once was in a car accident and had an ambulance ride to the ER, just to make sure the headache I had wasn't whiplash. A few weeks later, I got a letter from my insurance company that I -might- be getting a bill for the ride, but they told me NOT to pay it, since paying bills for health care is what they are for. I did get the bill, which was DM 20,-.
My mom had brain surgery (non-cancerous growth that was wrapped around an optical nerve) in the 90's, and while there were bills concerning her stay in the hospital, they were by far not as high as the ones as DW had for daring to break her elbow a year ago.
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  #13  
Old 06 February 2018, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfresh View Post
Making people lose weight before elective surgery? Insane. Good to know you would never have something like that here in the USA (where my MIL's doctor told her straight up that he was going to test her for tobacco use before her heart surgery, and if she hadn't stopped smoking, he was not going to do the surgery.)
IIRC a friend of mine mentioned that her doctor recommended she lose some weight because of some non-surgery requiring condition. Made sense to me. If I was to look into knee replacement surgery, I'm sure the first thing the doctor would tell me would be to loose some weight, which I should do anyway.
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  #14  
Old 06 February 2018, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by UEL View Post
I thought that was a product of Sarah Palin. And even most GOP members, except the Tea Party holdouts, know that Palin is nuts.
Sadly, the "death panel" idea seems to have stuck with a not insignificant portion of the voting populace (including my otherwise intelligent in-laws) - I would go so far as to say that Trump's base is largely made up of lower middle-class whites who don't let pesky old facts get in the way of their anti-government paranoia.
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  #15  
Old 06 February 2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicgeek View Post
I would go so far as to say that Trump's base is largely made up of lower middle-class whites
I think it's been posted on these boards before that that's apparently not so. More low-income people voted for Clinton than for Trump; and much of Trump's support is (logically enough) among higher-income people.

Here's one of multiple possible cites.

Quote:
white non-Hispanic voters without college degrees making below the median household income made up only 25 percent of Trump voters.
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  #16  
Old 06 February 2018, 03:39 PM
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I am not sure that cite contradicts the idea that the base Trump supporter - the ones who will go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify everything he does - are not "lower middle-class whites".
For one, that is not the same as "low income" or working class. So just showing that low income people voted more for Clinton doesn't cover it. If we go by Gilbert or Thompson and Hickey, then the lower middle class typically have some college education, and the average standard of living. They are distinct from the working class or the working poor.
Then there is the difference between those who voted for him and his base. The wealthy who voted for him are probably not his base, nor are the upper middle class. They probably just wanted a tax cut, and found him useful for those purposes. I don't know that I've seen anything definitive about who his base - those who wouldn't care if he shot someone on 5th Avenue - actually are, other than Kid Rock and Ted Nugent.
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  #17  
Old 06 February 2018, 03:53 PM
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Regardless of how accurate descriptions of Trump voters are, "his base" does not mean "the plurality of people who voted for him in the 2016 election." His base is not necessarily even made up entirely of people who voted for him in 2016.
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  #18  
Old 06 February 2018, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Credence View Post
I don't know that I've seen anything definitive about who his base - those who wouldn't care if he shot someone on 5th Avenue - actually are
Well, there is that. I'm not sure how you'd get that info.

But if we haven't got it, then making pronouncements about how they must be mostly lower middle class isn't well based, either.
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  #19  
Old 07 February 2018, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
I think it's been posted on these boards before that that's apparently not so. More low-income people voted for Clinton than for Trump; and much of Trump's support is (logically enough) among higher-income people.
This. So very this. I am so tired of how all the pundits and whatnot, keep casting Trump as the populist champion of the working class. Again, the working class went predominately for Hillary AND Trump can barely mask his contempt for anyone who makes less than six figures.

I've wondered if this whole "Working Class Supported Trump" meme isn't something that is being set up, so when everything goes south, the Poor will get the blame, while the massive corporate interests who backed and funded him, can escape scot-free. There's a classist edge to this meme, like they're saying, "Those poors sure are dumb and poor, am I right?"

The sad part is if they do utilize this strategy, it would probably work, because no one seems to have any difficulty with blaming the Poor. The really sad part is how the Democratic Party goes along with this meme, though it's not too surprising; the Democratic Party's main strategy these days seems to be conceding the fight before it's even begun.

Also, as Samantha Bee would point out, it'd be nice if everyone would remember that the Working Class isn't made up solely of White dudes. It turns out that women and PoC work, who knew?
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