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  #21  
Old 26 March 2007, 11:01 PM
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Silas Sparkhammer Silas Sparkhammer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Mike Night View Post
for the most part, doesn't this already exist? Granted, it's no ten lane superhighway (and i can't see why you would need that many lanes) but the pan-american highway already runs from Alaska to Chile. . . .
It runs through California, Oregon, and Washington: blue states. The Republicans want it to go through red states, most importantly Texas.

Okay, I'm only half joking. Those who have read their history will remember exactly the same debate over the route of the first trans-continental U.S. railroad: southern states favored a southern route, northern states favored a northern route, etc. It is not entirely fanciful to wonder if this is an effort to divert the trade economy away from the "Left Coast."

(And, lest you consider me too paranoid, remember that the great energy scam has already been proven: energy costs were manipulated in order to steal money from California.)

Silas
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  #22  
Old 27 March 2007, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
It runs through California, Oregon, and Washington: blue states. The Republicans want it to go through red states, most importantly Texas.

Okay, I'm only half joking. Those who have read their history will remember exactly the same debate over the route of the first trans-continental U.S. railroad: southern states favored a southern route, northern states favored a northern route, etc. It is not entirely fanciful to wonder if this is an effort to divert the trade economy away from the "Left Coast."

(And, lest you consider me too paranoid, remember that the great energy scam has already been proven: energy costs were manipulated in order to steal money from California.)

Silas
You are not one I would doubt, Silas, but can you give me a cite on that so that if I mention it to others I can back it up?
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  #23  
Old 27 March 2007, 08:28 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Quote:
Has anyone living along the proposed route of this superhighway seen any evidence of it's construction? Surveyors, land purchase, increased hiring of highway consruction workers? No? Thought not.
Perhaps it's a tunnel?
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  #24  
Old 27 March 2007, 09:32 PM
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Silas Sparkhammer Silas Sparkhammer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by snapdragonfly View Post
You are not one I would doubt, Silas, but can you give me a cite on that so that if I mention it to others I can back it up?
Here is one link. It is virtually identical to the link at Wikipedia. Neither of these is a primary source, but (as I may have mentioned before) I'm not very good at internet searching.

Silas
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  #25  
Old 06 April 2007, 05:52 PM
Iludium Phosdex
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Mike Night View Post
for the most part, doesn't this already exist? Granted, it's no ten lane superhighway (and i can't see why you would need that many lanes) but the pan-american highway already runs from Alaska to Chile.

With NAFTA in place, would it be that big of a deal to stop at two borders (Canada-Us and US-Mexico)?
IIBC, there's already a gap in the Pan-American Highway through the Gatun swamps in Panama, about 250 miles in all.
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  #26  
Old 06 April 2007, 05:56 PM
Iludium Phosdex
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie Parker View Post
I'm not sure about the super highway, but I am sure about the North American Union....
Would said "North American Union" be on the model of the European Union and/or the MERCOSUR such in South America?

And how would said "North American Union" be seen as undermining the "antient and pecuilar" soverignty of the United States (as if same mattered all the more for National Identity and Cohesion, howbeit warped in the crudest way possible)?
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  #27  
Old 19 May 2007, 09:23 PM
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Icon104 Urban myth travels all the way to Congress

If the government really has a secret plan to build a 12-lane road-and-rail NAFTA Superhighway that will split the heartland from Mexico to Canada, it's playing with a great poker face.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssen...l/17241314.htm
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  #28  
Old 19 May 2007, 11:48 PM
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Icon104 Urban legend of "North American Union" feeds on fears

Forget conspiracy theories about JFK's assassination, black helicopters, Sept. 11, 2001. This is the big one.

We're talking about the secret plan to build a superhighway, a giant 10- to 12-lane production, from the Yucatán to the Yukon.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...8_rumor19.html
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  #29  
Old 20 May 2007, 12:26 AM
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Silas Sparkhammer Silas Sparkhammer is offline
 
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Congress recently voted against the President's plan to use NAFTA to deregulate trucking in the U.S.; under Bush's plan, Mexican trucks and drivers would have the right to compete with domestic transport companies. This would have the obvious effect of pushing prices down, which is both "good news" and "bad news." But there are also questions of safety and regulation. For instance, in Mexico, truck drivers don't have limits on the number of hours they can drive without a mandatory rest. If a Mexican trucker, already having pushed himself for twelve hours, hits the American roads, he could pose an increased safety threat.

This *may* be what people were thinking of when they spoke of a "NAFTA Superhighway."

Silas
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  #30  
Old 20 May 2007, 12:59 AM
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Amigone201 Amigone201 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
Congress recently voted against the President's plan to use NAFTA to deregulate trucking in the U.S.; under Bush's plan, Mexican trucks and drivers would have the right to compete with domestic transport companies. This would have the obvious effect of pushing prices down, which is both "good news" and "bad news." But there are also questions of safety and regulation. For instance, in Mexico, truck drivers don't have limits on the number of hours they can drive without a mandatory rest. If a Mexican trucker, already having pushed himself for twelve hours, hits the American roads, he could pose an increased safety threat.

This *may* be what people were thinking of when they spoke of a "NAFTA Superhighway."

Silas
No, I'm pretty sure they were ACTUALLY thinking of a gigantic highway. Some of the Ruby Ridge wackjob sites have now gone beyond "Is it happening" and are trying to stop it. I guess the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot will have to take a backseat for a while.
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  #31  
Old 22 May 2007, 09:10 PM
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Ali Infree Ali Infree is offline
 
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I just did a quick check on Ron Paul and his introduction of bills in Congress on thomas.loc.gov and no such bill shows up.


OTOH, this guy is a serious wack job, is he considered on the libertarian fringe or elsewhere on the right wing spectrum?

Last edited by Ali Infree; 22 May 2007 at 09:11 PM. Reason: spelling errors
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  #32  
Old 23 May 2007, 04:23 AM
Nismobeach
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
If the government really has a secret plan to build a 12-lane road-and-rail NAFTA Superhighway that will split the heartland from Mexico to Canada, it's playing with a great poker face.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssen...l/17241314.htm
Actually you're mistaken. The NAFTA Superhighway does exist, and I'll provide ample information to support my claim. For the sake of readers I will make a separate post for each of my main points.

My view is that the article that you linked to is blatant propaganda. I will use various excepts from the article in an attempt to recant the author's assertions that the integration of Canada, Mexico, and the USA is a myth.

1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by article
"There is absolutely no U.S. government plan for a NAFTA Superhighway of any sort," said David Bohigian, an assistant secretary of commerce. Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., a powerful member of committees that would authorize and pay for a North American Free Trade Agreement Superhighway if one were being planned, dismissed the notion as "unfounded theories" with "no credence."
There's no need for the federal government to pay to build the NAFTA superhighway when the local people can pay for it themselves via tolls:
CBS 42 News Report on Central Texas Toll Roads Phase I & II
TxDOT inflates need by $30 Billion. (My Fox Austin)
Toll Road Debate between TxDOT and Texas public. (CBS 42 Austin)

Last edited by Nismobeach; 23 May 2007 at 04:53 AM.
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  #33  
Old 23 May 2007, 04:28 AM
Nismobeach
 
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2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by article
The supposed superhighway would be a monster, with high-speed lanes and freight rail lines, plus pipelines, water, fiber optics and electric power, with gasoline and food concessions, stores, hotels and emergency services in the median.

• The controversial effort to build the Trans-Texas Corridor, which would largely parallel existing highways, primarily moving freight. The suspicious see it as the NAFTA Superhighway's first leg.
This section of the article was poorly researched. According the Texas Department of Transportation's (TxDOT) own website the purpose of the Trans-Texas Corridor is to do more than move freight:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxDOT
The Trans-Texas Corridor (TTC) is a proposed multi-use, statewide network of transportation routes in Texas that will incorporate existing and new highways, railways and utility right-of-ways. Specific routes for the TTC have not been determined.

As envisioned, each route will include:

* separate lanes for passenger vehicles and large trucks
* freight railways
* high-speed commuter railways
* infrastructure for utilities including water lines, oil and gas pipelines, and transmission lines for electricity, broadband and other telecommunications services

Plans call for the TTC to be completed in phases over the next 50 years with routes prioritized according to Texas’ transportation needs. TxDOT will oversee planning, construction and ongoing maintenance, although private vendors will be responsible for much of the daily operations.
http://www.keeptexasmoving.org/proje..._overview.aspx

I feel that it is also important to note what TxDot illustrates as to what the TTC's conceptual route would be:
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  #34  
Old 23 May 2007, 04:29 AM
Nismobeach
 
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3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by article
• North America's SuperCorridor Project, or NASCO. The Texas-based nonprofit coalition advocates for improvements along major trade corridors, such as Interstates 35, 29 and 94.
The author implies that because the group is based in Texas their activities are also confined to that state. This is false as NASCO's own website outlines how it plans to advocate for "improvements" from Mexico to Canada:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NASCO
NAIPN is a working group in North America's SuperCorridor Coalition (NASCO). NAIPN advocates the interests of Inland Ports along the Mid-Continent International Trade and Transportation Corridor (MCITTC) and supports NASCO's mission to strengthen the Secure, Multi-Modal Trade and Transportation System.
http://www.nascocorridor.com/pages/p...ts_network.htm

They even provide a map of what they envision here:


Quote:
Originally Posted by NASCO
NASCO further notes that the alleged purpose of these ports would are:
"An Inland Port is a site located away from traditional land, air and coastal borders with the vision to facilitate and process international trade through strategic investment in multi-modal transportation assets and by promoting value-added services as goods move through the supply chain."

Inland Ports are efficient Economic Development engines for their regions. By networking Inland Ports together, NAIPN extends economic benefits throughout the whole Corridor. NAIPN improves the efficiency of International Commerce throughout the Mid-Continent. NAIPN increases trade flow with the Pacific Rim, Russia and Latin America.
http://www.nascocorridor.com/pages/p...ts_network.htm

The implementation of at least one of these ports has already begun in Kansas City Missouri. According to a news article from the American Journal of Transportation titled "Opening the Midwest to Asian Trade Via Mexico" which is posted on the Kansas City SmartPort's own web page:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartPort
In the last few years, Kansas City and Mexican officials have "talked the talk" concerning a new trade route from Asia through Mexico to Kansas City. Now they are beginning to "walk the walk."

Talk about setting up a new route to bypass congested US West Coast ports emerged in dozens of official and unofficial meetings in Kansas City and Mexico. It culminated in March with the signing of a cooperative agreement between Kansas City and the Western Mexican port city of Lazaro Cardenas.

"In terms of opening the Midwest to Asian trade through Mexican ports, this agreement signifies substantial completion of the extensive efforts devoted to establishing the political, economic and cultural foundation enabling this trade route to work," Alfred Figuly, president of the Greater Kansas City Foreign Trade Zone, said shortly before the formal signing of the pact. "It also marks the beginning of the implementation phase."
http://www.kcsmartport.com/sec_news/...ajt_052305.htm

You can read more about the Kansas City SmartPort here:
http://www.kcsmartport.com/sec_about/about.htm
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  #35  
Old 23 May 2007, 04:31 AM
Nismobeach
 
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4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by article
The federal government has no plans for a superhighway, Englehart said, but "there are private and state-level interests" pushing something similar. "They describe themselves as NAFTA corridors, but they're not federally driven initiatives, and they're not part of the Security and Prosperity Partnership."
Englehart is engaging in double speak. The Federal government is ultimately responsible for overseeing all interstate projects because of its power to regulate interstate commerce. By allowing regional and local interest groups to pursue projects that affect interstate commerce the Federal government thus tacitly approves of their plan.

Finally, the author noted in the beginning of his piece that this alleged NAFTA Superhighway conspiracy could eventually lead to the end of the U.S. dollar itself. According to an article published yesterday in the respected Canadian newspaper Globe & Mail the Bank of Canada Governor David Dodge says North America could one day embrace a euro-style single currency.

When one compares all of this information to the way in which the European Union was established initially through trade agreements the author's article is thoroughly debunked, IMO.

Last edited by Nismobeach; 23 May 2007 at 04:45 AM.
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  #36  
Old 23 May 2007, 05:00 AM
Nismobeach
 
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Correction:

My rebuttal references the original article that is linked here:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...8_rumor19.html

and not the summary article:
http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssen...l/17241314.htm

My apologies.
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  #37  
Old 23 May 2007, 12:49 PM
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Not_Done_Living Not_Done_Living is offline
 
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This whole thing has to be bunk..

Those conceptual maps have the lanes ending in Winnipeg.
No body goes to Winnipeg.
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  #38  
Old 23 May 2007, 06:09 PM
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guruwan2b guruwan2b is offline
 
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Looks like it follows I-35 thru OK.
~~~~guru glances over to see the interstate~~~~
Nope, hasn't changed in years. Still 2 lanes northbound and 2 lanes southbound.
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  #39  
Old 23 May 2007, 10:46 PM
Nismobeach
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_Done_Living View Post
This whole thing has to be bunk..

Those conceptual maps have the lanes ending in Winnipeg.
No body goes to Winnipeg.
According to this older conceptual drawing that is no longer posted on NASCO's web page, the Winnipeg "port" would be used to shift supplies to western Canada.
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  #40  
Old 23 May 2007, 11:45 PM
Nismobeach
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guruwan2b View Post
Looks like it follows I-35 thru OK.
~~~~guru glances over to see the interstate~~~~
Nope, hasn't changed in years. Still 2 lanes northbound and 2 lanes southbound.
That doesn't change the fact that interests are still working together to implement it. Perhaps you haven't heard about Oklahoma DOT's 2005 - 2030 Statewide Intermodal Transportation Plan? It advocates improving the transportation system in Oklahoma with "trade corridors" for "economic development" reasons.

It seems that this conceptual map in .pdf format titled Improvement Cooridor Map matches up with all other proposed NAFTA Superhighway maps quite nicely.

Furthermore according to the document entitled Intermodal Element Policies, Strategies, and Project Concepts this "economic development plan" also calls for a similar expansion of highway, and rail capacity just like the Trans Texas Corridor.

Perhaps you should take the opportunity to participate in ODOT's Public Participation Plan for Statewide Inter-Modal Plan that they announced about two weeks ago. It will give you the opportunity to voice your concerns about the Oklahoma Inter-Modal/NAFTA Superhighway/corridor thing before they start tearing up I-35 the next time you happen to glance over at it.
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