snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > Non-UL Chat > NFBSK Gone Wild!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07 November 2017, 09:55 PM
Richard W's Avatar
Richard W Richard W is online now
 
Join Date: 19 February 2000
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 26,209
Default Facebook asks users for nude photos in project to combat revenge porn

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...rn-nude-photos

Quote:
Facebook is asking users to send the company their nude photos in an effort to tackle revenge porn, in an attempt to give some control back to victims of this type of abuse.
Well I certainly can't see any problems with that idea...

(The idea is to create a hash from the photos, and then prevent anybody else uploading a photo which hashes to the same value. I assume that these days there must be ways to hash the image so that it comes out the same even if you crop, resize, tweak the colour and so on - otherwise that would be trivial to get around anyway. It does say that there are, but I wonder how reliable that is?)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07 November 2017, 10:52 PM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 7,055
Default

Quote:
Hany Farid, a professor of computer science at Dartmouth who helped develop PhotoDNA, described Facebook’s pilot as a “terrific idea”.
He seems very enthusiastic. Nice to see someone so committed to their work.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07 November 2017, 11:11 PM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,606
Facebook

I guess it wouldn't be a hash because that would be kind of useless. Typically a hash changes completely with a change in just one bit. I think they can save it as some kinds of attributes that aren't reversible. Then the ai learns which characteristics are typical of the nudes vs the clothed, or whatever the general set is, that's also been stored that way. If they want to keep the photos 100% private then they could send do the conversion in the browser before it's sent. But then they need to be sure that whatever they're being sent is the type of photo the contributor says it is. That's a bit of a conundrum. (This is not a new problem... nor are nudes images so rare. So you have to wonder why they suddenly need them. Maybe something about the type they need? Dunno)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08 November 2017, 02:19 AM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,606
Facebook

Another, more sinister possibility is that FB is making a move to corner the market on the hotdog / not hotdog recognition market. I smell a patent suit.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08 November 2017, 02:29 AM
UEL's Avatar
UEL UEL is offline
 
Join Date: 01 August 2004
Location: Fredericton, Canada
Posts: 9,259
Baseball

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
I guess it wouldn't be a hash because that would be kind of useless. Typically a hash changes completely with a change in just one bit.
Just to give an example for ganz's point:

- we have plenty of IT filters and defences on our main networks and email
- soldiers will find a way to bypass these email filters
- we had one filter that would not allow "raw" training imagery from our equipment pass through. It would be in jpg format 1000x900 at 32 bit resolution (or something like that, nothing outrageous)
- but, to get past the filter, we "converted it" to exactly the same dimensions and resolution
- to the naked eye there was no difference
- but the email filters allowed them

I am certain that if there is some aspect of this that will deal with filters, someone will quickly and easily find a way to defeat the defence.

And the worst case scenario is a data breach. There are enough breaches with usernames, account numbers and passwords. I would not feel comfortable having a library or database with images of me waiting to be hacked.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08 November 2017, 10:15 AM
Richard W's Avatar
Richard W Richard W is online now
 
Join Date: 19 February 2000
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 26,209
Default

Yes, I agree that "hash" in the strict sense is the wrong word, but it's the word the article used.

I guess that if it's going to work, it would have to work on some ratio between identifiable points on the specific photo that's sent in, that won't alter even if all the colours are changed or it's resized or rotated or whatever. Face recognition works in a similar way. You could call the resulting number a hash but it wouldn't be the traditional sort. And I'm sure it would still be possible to get round it with a bit of experimentation to work out what they were looking at.

They're not trying to identify nude photos in general, ganzfeld - the idea is that it would block the specific nude photos they'd been sent. They also wouldn't (at least, in their ideal world) be keeping the photos themselves, UEL, although obviously that is an issue in itself since the "ideal" there is one that's easily broken...! A data breach under those circumstances would be embarrassing for Facebook because it would be presented as "Facebook loses customers' nude photo data!!!!!" but it wouldn't actually contain the nude photos, or any way to recreate them, in itself. The distinction always gets lost, though; whenever there's a data breach at a retailer the news reports always make a big deal of "credit card data!!!" even though, except in the most egregious cases (Lush a few years ago, for one) there's no usable data or card numbers in there, assuming the company complies with the regulations and common sense standards. It's the idea of it that worries people.

The last company I worked for held secure customer data (not credit card numbers; we were PCI compliant and not stupid), and although most employees aren't meant to have access to the customer data and purchase records and so on, there are plenty that need them in specific cases, for example support staff and even developers who are trying to reproduce an issue that's only been seen on one specific order. Ideally support can identify the feature of the customer or order that caused the problem and send dummy data to the developer that also causes the issue, but sometimes (read: often because they don't always know how to and can be quite lazy - or busy, being charitable) that's not possible and it's easier and quicker for the developer just to use the actual data itself.

Anyway, the possible ease of getting round it is not the first of the problems I can see with the idea, and even Facebook employees hijacking the data, or a data breach, isn't the extent of it! What about third parties taking advantage of the idea to harvest photos through a fake submission service? What about the bizarre idea that it would normalise having to send nude photos of yourself to organisations, in order to avoid being blamed when they display the same photos against your will?

Last edited by Richard W; 08 November 2017 at 10:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08 November 2017, 01:10 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is online now
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 26,110
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
What about the bizarre idea that it would normalise having to send nude photos of yourself to organisations, in order to avoid being blamed when they display the same photos against your will?
The purpose of submitting nude photos is that it would allow Facebook to automatically prevent someone else from publishing those photos against your will.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09 November 2017, 04:36 PM
DawnStorm's Avatar
DawnStorm DawnStorm is offline
 
Join Date: 11 March 2003
Location: Montgomery County, MD
Posts: 16,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post



Well I certainly can't see any problems with that idea...

Nope, neither do I!

Couldn't the same photo be sent out under different names? For example Dawn's Naked!; Dawnznaked; Dawnsnaked, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13 November 2017, 09:33 AM
Richard W's Avatar
Richard W Richard W is online now
 
Join Date: 19 February 2000
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 26,209
Default Sending in our nude photos to fight revenge porn? No thanks, Facebook

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...hanks-facebook

Quote:
A New York-based lawyer is quoted by the Guardian as saying she is “delighted that Facebook is trying to solve this problem”.

This level of trust in Facebook from both her and our e-safety commissioner is impressive. As someone who spends their time online, I’m perhaps more cynical.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Attorney disbarred for allegedly soliciting nude photos as payment TallGeekyGirl Moot Court 0 12 June 2016 09:37 PM
CHP officer says stealing nude photos from female arrestees 'game' for cops A Turtle Named Mack Police Blotter 18 27 October 2014 06:25 AM
OKCupid asks users to boycott Firefox because of CEO's gay rights stance St. Alia Business Bytes 41 12 April 2014 03:44 AM
Ex-student poses nude at school as ‘revenge’ Sue NFBSK Gone Wild! 29 11 January 2014 08:04 PM
How to Fight Revenge Porn snopes NFBSK Gone Wild! 0 11 May 2013 07:13 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.