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  #241  
Old 27 April 2017, 04:30 PM
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My daughter has IBS, if she tells you she needs to use the bathroom she's not kidding. There are a host of other medical conditions up to and including pregnancy that would also make accessing a bathroom an imperative. It is not unreasonable for flight crew to tell a passenger they must wait if the plane is taxiing into position and is taking off but 30 minutes wait and the plane is still not airborne? Not realistic at all.
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  #242  
Old 27 April 2017, 05:19 PM
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I have IBS, that's why this article caught my eye. Lots of people have IBS, or a more serious digestive issue (Crohn's, ulcerative colitis). Heck, people get digestive bugs or eat things that don't agree with them. A good friend of mine, for medical reasons, has very limited ability to "hold" his urine.

ETA: I get that the flight crew may not know when they'll get clearance and start taxiing, and that they don't want to delay because there may be more planes waiting "behind" that one. I get that it's not within the flight crew's control. But people can't help needing to urinate and defecate, either, and for some of us, an urgent need may strike very suddenly.
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  #243  
Old 27 April 2017, 07:29 PM
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The lesson I've learned is to get up and use the bathroom without asking. They might say something when you come out, but they can't throw you off the plane for failing to follow direction.
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  #244  
Old 27 April 2017, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
ETA: I get that the flight crew may not know when they'll get clearance and start taxiing, and that they don't want to delay because there may be more planes waiting "behind" that one. I get that it's not within the flight crew's control.
IIRC, it's not just that there might be other planes waiting behind you. If they're not ready to go when they get clearance (meaning everyone is in their seats with seatbelts fastened, among other things), ATC will give your flight's spot to the next plane in line and your flight essentially gets moved to the back of the line, potentially adding another 30 minutes or whatever to the delay.
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  #245  
Old 27 April 2017, 08:39 PM
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But clearance is the last thing that happens before you move onto the runway. If you are a dozen planes back in a slow moving line, you aren't in danger of missing your place if someone makes a quick use of the bathroom.

In the article posted they were in that line for at least 30 minutes.
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  #246  
Old 27 April 2017, 08:43 PM
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United have reached a confidential settlement with Dr Dao, his lawyers announced today

http://www.theage.com.au/business/av...27-gvu8fj.html
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  #247  
Old 27 April 2017, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
IIRC, it's not just that there might be other planes waiting behind you. If they're not ready to go when they get clearance (meaning everyone is in their seats with seatbelts fastened, among other things), ATC will give your flight's spot to the next plane in line and your flight essentially gets moved to the back of the line, potentially adding another 30 minutes or whatever to the delay.
I'd rather wait 30 minutes and be able to use the bathroom than leave 30 minutes earlier in discomfort or possibly distress from not being able to use one.
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  #248  
Old 28 April 2017, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Monkey View Post
United have reached a confidential settlement with Dr Dao, his lawyers announced today

http://www.theage.com.au/business/av...27-gvu8fj.html
The good doctor played hardball in the negotiation. He held out for an extra pillow and a packet of peanuts.
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  #249  
Old 28 April 2017, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
My daughter has IBS, if she tells you she needs to use the bathroom she's not kidding. There are a host of other medical conditions up to and including pregnancy that would also make accessing a bathroom an imperative.
When you add up possible medical conditions, pregnancy, age, unexpected onset of or unexpectedly heavy menstruation, and the fact that people taking airplanes are generally travelling and people who are travelling are often eating unfamiliar food: if they expect everybody to be able to wait extended periods of time to use the bathroom, I wonder that they don't routinely have to spend extended periods of time cleaning the airplane seats.

Or maybe they just don't . . . [looks askance and suspiciously at seats]
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  #250  
Old 28 April 2017, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
But clearance is the last thing that happens before you move onto the runway. If you are a dozen planes back in a slow moving line, you aren't in danger of missing your place if someone makes a quick use of the bathroom.

In the article posted they were in that line for at least 30 minutes.
I looked for a cite yesterday; I swear I read that on this blog but I couldn't find the post where he said that. But I remember reading that each flight is assigned a wheels-up time by ATC, and if they're not ready to go at that time they get sent to the back of the line. I'm thinking that might mean "ready to leave the gate and start taxiing" so it might not apply in this scenario.

But if they were in a "slow moving line of planes" when the passenger got up, that's a different issue. Everyone's supposed to be in their seats with their seatbelts on while they're taxiing. If the FAA somehow found out that they were taxiing while someone was out of their seat I believe the airline could be fined. Even if the plane wasn't actually moving at that exact moment, they were still technically taxiing.

Last edited by WildaBeast; 28 April 2017 at 04:54 PM. Reason: spelling error
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  #251  
Old 28 April 2017, 04:45 PM
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I understand the pressures the airlines are under in this situation. But they don't change the fact that people need to attend to bodily functions whether they're "allowed" to or not.

IDK what the answer is, but I don't think it's to kick somebody off a plane and leave them stranded, possibly far from home, because they had an urgent bathroom need and chose *not* to suffer continuing discomfort, or publicly soil themselves.

ETA: Semi-hijackably, one thing I've learned in 30+ years of having IBS is that people who have low-maintenance, well-regulated digestive systems often assume that everyone's body works that way. "You'll have to wait until after we take off" sounds to my admittedly biased ears like another version of "Why don't you wait until you're home to take a dump?" (venting, not directed at any individual here)
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  #252  
Old 28 April 2017, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I understand the pressures the airlines are under in this situation. But they don't change the fact that people need to attend to bodily functions whether they're "allowed" to or not.
I wouldn't be surprised if the rule was written decades ago when airports were less crowded and the thought that it might take over 30 minutes to taxi from the gate to the runway never occurred to anyone.

Maybe this is one of those regulations the Trump administration will get rid of and the free market will just sort out when it is and isn't safe to get up and walk around.
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  #253  
Old 28 April 2017, 11:58 PM
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Mr. Trump might have come up with a solution to the problem if not for his pesky realisation recently that being President was quite hard - harder than his previous job. If he'd just had a little more staying power, or if not for the inconvenient other people, he'd have solved everything by now.
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  #254  
Old 29 April 2017, 12:11 AM
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The FAA regulations require passengers to be seated when the sign is turn on. They require that the sign be turned on during take-offs, landings and when moving on the ground. If the plane isn't moving and the sign isn't on, it is perfectly legal to get up and use the bathroom.
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  #255  
Old 29 April 2017, 01:48 AM
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I would think one possible solution would have been for the aircraft in question to have asked ATC for a ground hold of five minutes in place. to allow this passenger to take care of business.

As I understand the events, the actual delay for the flight, going back to the gate, removing the passenger and then getting back into line for departure was considerably longer than a five minute hold would have cost the airline.
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  #256  
Old 29 April 2017, 02:11 AM
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The problem with that, is that if they're on a taxiway, and there are planes in line behind them, those planes must now navigate their way around said plane while they hold.
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  #257  
Old 29 April 2017, 02:22 AM
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I actually have far greater understanding of someone disobeying flight crew for bathroom urgency than for not wanting to give up their seat. I would not have risked being bodily removed from an airplane to vindicate my beliefs about overselling of flights, but if you've truly got to go, you don't have many other choices.
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  #258  
Old 29 April 2017, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRocket View Post
The problem with that, is that if they're on a taxiway, and there are planes in line behind them, those planes must now navigate their way around said plane while they hold.
Maybe, and I understand the concern.

The "maybe" comes from what is the specifics in regards to the taxiway at the location of the aircraft when the man started to becoming very concerned about a bathroom break.

I've not found which of the five runways the Delta aircraft was lined up to use for departure, so it will be difficult to make a real assessment as to what their options could have been.

In examining the airport diagram for ATL, there seems to be several possibilities where the aircraft could have pulled out of line for five minutes and not interfered with other departing traffic.

Also, it could depend on how far back in the line of departing traffic the Delta aircraft was located. If the Delta flight was 20 planes back from the head of the line and ATC was releasing one aircraft every minute, the Delta flight could have stayed in place 18 minutes and not even held up any aircraft behind them. It would have just been a fast taxi from the hold location to the departure end of the runway.

All I am suggesting is that a little thinking outside the box could have prevented this issue from becoming the major problem that resulted.
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  #259  
Old 30 April 2017, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLegends101 View Post
Also, it could depend on how far back in the line of departing traffic the Delta aircraft was located. If the Delta flight was 20 planes back from the head of the line and ATC was releasing one aircraft every minute, the Delta flight could have stayed in place 18 minutes and not even held up any aircraft behind them. It would have just been a fast taxi from the hold location to the departure end of the runway.
Or, in a lot of cases where there is a queue for takeoff, the runway isn't even open for takeoffs and is currently handling landings. In that case, no aircraft in the line moves, at all, until the runway reopens for takeoffs. The FAA and the airlines need to get together to resolves these kinds of issues.
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  #260  
Old 01 May 2017, 02:52 PM
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Just to add to the list of possible "bathroom emergency" people: people who are on certain diabetes medication can suffer from what is sometimes termed "Explosive diarrhea". In my case, it starts with cramps that progressively get more painful until and unless I can spend some uncomfortable time on the porcelain throne (but still more comfortable than the Iron Throne, amirite? ).
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