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  #81  
Old 06 September 2007, 05:20 PM
jespur62
 
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(Sorry- I came into this discussion late- did not have time to read all your posting.)

No- I am not saying lets legalize pedophilia because some Moslems do it. My point was, from what I do know about Moslems, having sex with a child is technically (please note the word technically) not permitted. Christians, Jews, and others also do not approve of such behavior- but in America, and other countries, since women have power to protect their children, and since men are no longer seen as "owners" of their families, pedophilia is a crime, it is looked for, caught and dealt with.

My point was, trying to outlaw pedophilia in a country like Iran is almost pointless because as long as "Allah" allows men to be "owners" instead of husbands and fathers, this type of behavior will continue. I hope you don't feel I am undermining your overall point on this matter - I am trying to build on it. If you are trying to say there is something terrible about a religion that allows men to have sex with children, I do not disagree. No matter how you slice it- marrying and having sex with a pre-pubescent girl should be counted as illegal and immoral by everyone.

[/QUOTE]

This thread has been an interesting read.

Trying not to confuse marriage with pedophilia -
Even in the US the mix of laws can be confusing. I believe someone can marry legally in the US as young as 14. And yet, recently in the news, a 17 year old boy in Georgia had consentual intercourse with a 16 year old girl was charged with having sex with a minor.
Also in the US, There are groups where pre-teen girls are married to older men. I would guess usually religion is the excuse, and not sanctioned by the state. And since I am not in one of these groups, nor personally know anyone in such a group, I cannot say if marriage includes consumation.
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  #82  
Old 11 September 2007, 08:00 PM
cobra4j
 
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I'm back- Miss me?

I recently had a conversation with someone who heard from a former Moslem. According to him, the so called "paranoia" in this thread is not all paranoia. The former Moslem told about how his fellow Moslems will tell you to your face how they are all non-violent, part of a beautiful religion, but- behind your back... another story.

I am sure this is not true of every moselm in the world, or America. I have known a few myself that I don't believe this to be true. However, this mindset of "if they won't convert - kill them" is very real.

Yes, in answer to someone elses observation- the same kind of thing can be said of the Bible. There were many times in the OT where people went to war, and the war was more like barbarism than holy.

However, #1 - that was how many centuries ago?

#2 - Jesus, the primary focus of Christian faith, did not approve this or advocate it for his followers (it's a new covenant).

#3 - At the time, it may have seemed like it was God's will, and it may have seemed necessary - but I don't believe most people would see it as holy or necessary today.

and I could go on -

However, lets get back to the main point- sex with children.

Well, when people are likely to die in their thirties, as was extremely common hundreds of years ago, getting married early and having babies at 12 or so is logical-

However, we tend to live well beyond that today. Young marriage is no longer necessary - and we are all able to see the evil side of it today.
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  #83  
Old 12 September 2007, 04:27 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Quote:
I recently had a conversation with someone who heard from a former Moslem.
Anecdotes are not data, especially not when they come froms someone obviously disgruntled by the subject.

Quote:
Well, when people are likely to die in their thirties, as was extremely common hundreds of years ago
Myth. The average life span was short, but that was because infant mortality was extreme. In some parts of Sweden, people didn't even bother to name the children until they were a couple of years old, because of the high infant mortality. Once people got past those first years, it was not uncommon to live to old age, and 50 or 60 years was quite common.
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  #84  
Old 18 September 2007, 09:08 PM
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Silkenray Silkenray is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Crimson View Post
Its Number 1. Muhammad said obey the laws of your king as long as it does not conflict Islam Obey him, even if he is a black man with a raisin head..until you are strong enough to take over. (a few ahadith paraphrased for brevity). Therefore, Muslims when they are a minority should obey the laws of the country they live in, and when they are bigger in numbers, should start taking steps to take over.

You can see this in the UK at the moment.
You do realize that Muslims make up less than 3% of the UK population? They're not going to be taking over the country any time soon, even if a substantial portion of them wish to (which is up for debate).
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  #85  
Old 24 September 2007, 12:42 PM
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High Eight High Eight is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Crimson View Post
..........Muslims when they are a minority should obey the laws of the country they live in, and when they are bigger in numbers, should start taking steps to take over.

You can see this in the UK at the moment.
You can? Where?
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  #86  
Old 24 September 2007, 08:59 PM
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Silas Sparkhammer Silas Sparkhammer is offline
 
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I was just reading a history of World War One. When Britain and Turkey went to war, the Muslim religious leaders in Turkey declared a jihad, and commanded all Muslims in Britain to rise up in rebellion.

They didn't.

Silas
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