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#61
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So therefore perhaps we should just discard his body, as it has no importance in this case? On the contrary - the archaeological and anthropological knowledge we've gained from his body has been vast, and I believe additional information is still being gained. |
#62
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I'm pretty sure it's just a Messiah with mange. The shadows don't look right.
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#63
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He's not the Messiah. He just a very naughty boy.
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#64
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I heard a perfectly plausible theory on this one.
When the Knights Templar were disbanded, Jacques de Molay, the last official Grandmaster of the Order, was allegedly subjected to the same tortures as the Christ as part of an "ultimate humiliation" to an order that is supposedly supporting the Church and was allegedly worshipping Satan all along... The conjecture was that the shroud was actually Jacques de Molay's - NOT the shroud that was used on Jesus. I don't know how true it is, but at least the dates line up with the carbon dating. |
#65
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#66
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#67
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De Molay and the Shroud of Turin
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other books of theirs claim that the angel Uriel was an astronomer priest from Britain, his exploits detailed in the Book of Enoch, and that Masonic ritual dates back to ancient Egypt and was used by the early Church. I don't go for blaming the messenger, but I have yet to see a single source other than these guys support the theory that the shroud is the image of Jacques de Molay, or that he underwent torture consistent with that of Christ. And given their almost complete lack of reliable referencing or support outside of the conspiracist-pseudohistory scene, I'm...a little skeptical, let's say. |
#68
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I'm quite sure, if you were to visit Masada today, you would find significant traces of PVC, neoprene, nylon, etc. This doesn't mean that such materials existed 2,000 years ago! Silas |
#69
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Second: Why should anybody discard anything just because there is no knowledge to be gained from it (and where did I say or imply that)? Go ahead, keep the Shroud, put it on display, hide it in a cellar, do whatever you (general you) want with it. You (general you again) can even claim that it is the true shroud of Jesus Christ and that it proofs his existence. Just don't expect me to follow your claim. Don Enrico |
#70
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#71
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okay, so there is a lot of back and forth on this subject. Unfortuently, we will probably never know the truth. I remember seeing something on either Discovery or the History channel that said that the carbon dating of the shroud is not dependable because of a fire that once broke out in the church that the shroud was kept in. The cloth itself was in a wooden chest, so the scientists on this program said that the carbon from the fire would have corrupted the actual dating. IIRC they said that the fire damage would make the shroud appear older than it actually is.
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#72
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#73
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The problem with historic religious artifacts, is that there is a very high burden of prof required to prove they are not what they claim to be. The opposite is the case with modern discoveries in that you are trying to prove what it maybe, not what it is not. In the case of the "ice man" there were scientist studying all the facts and data to make sure the evidence said it was a ice man with another group trying to find faults with the facts and data. In the case of the Shroud some group claims a cloth with some sorta stains on it in a some what human shape to be evidence of the some great thing that happen to their god's avatar. Now the scientist can try and disprove this claim after all the many years and damages it has taken over that time. Not to mention the lack of access to really study the cloth and its stains.
I was reading something years ago about how Kings, Popes or other very high officials would quick find things that no one else could. The king would send out a group to find religious artifacts or holy places and after a few year of finding nothing major the king goes to the site to do the job personally and a few week later he find the Shroud of Jesus or other such item or holy place. The article was just noting that historically that these High Officials (especially kings) had a unusually high success rate at finding valuable things and historic places of high importance. You must also remember if you wish to be around long enough to make sure you genecit materal lived past a few generations, it was good idea to at least agree with the king and better to back him up. |
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