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  #141  
Old 17 November 2017, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RichardM View Post
My wife and I learned long ago not to use the word "right" in the context of meaning correct.
We found this is common in the medical sphere also.
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  #142  
Old 18 November 2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Some societies don't really use left and right; they use east/west/north/south instead.
I've heard that too, and while it makes a lot of sense for directions (turn south instead of turn left) it seems to have some limitations. Skeptic mentioned the medical field; how would you communicate that, say, your right leg was injured using compass directions? Right and left also seem useful for rules of the road such as driving on the right side, passing on the left, etc.; in that case, the fact that "right" means opposite things to people traveling opposite directions is a feature, not a bug.
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  #143  
Old 18 November 2017, 06:45 PM
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Apparently you say it's your south leg, or whatever.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/ma...anguage-t.html

That of course means that the same leg becomes your north leg if you turn around; so you'd exchange wondering whether the doctor thought you meant your right or his right for wondering whether the operating table would have your leg in the same geographical orientation as it was in the surgeon's office. I suppose in either case writing 'Wrong one!' on the other one before surgery would be a good idea.


-- I don't know how people from the cultures in question handle rules of the road. They seem to be generally living in situations in which this hasn't been an issue. But if you're driving south, west is always on your right; if you're driving north, it's always on your left; etc. Maybe people with that good a sense of direction could develop terminology to describe the relationship between the directions in a useful fashion. I can't figure out how to do it in English, even in multiple sentences: which may be part of the reason why I, who have mostly lived within a few hundred miles of the East Coast (USA), got so confused when I was on the West Coast and 'towards the ocean' was suddenly an entirely different direction. (I had no idea before then that I had 'towards the ocean' established as a direction in my head in the first place; especially as I was rarely in sight or sound of it.)
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  #144  
Old 18 November 2017, 09:20 PM
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Fascinating thanks! From the article:
Quote:
For us, it might seem the height of absurdity for a dance teacher to say, “Now raise your north hand and move your south leg eastward.” But the joke would be lost on some: the Canadian-American musicologist Colin McPhee, who spent several years on Bali in the 1930s, recalls a young boy who showed great talent for dancing. As there was no instructor in the child’s village, McPhee arranged for him to stay with a teacher in a different village. But when he came to check on the boy’s progress after a few days, he found the boy dejected and the teacher exasperated. It was impossible to teach the boy anything, because he simply did not understand any of the instructions. When told to take “three steps east” or “bend southwest,” he didn’t know what to do. The boy would not have had the least trouble with these directions in his own village, but because the landscape in the new village was entirely unfamiliar, he became disoriented and confused. Why didn’t the teacher use different instructions? He would probably have replied that saying “take three steps forward” or “bend backward” would be the height of absurdity.
This makes me even more inclined to think the lack of egocentric directions is a limitation, although I suppose it's more so in the modern world where few people spend their whole lives in one place.
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  #145  
Old 18 November 2017, 10:02 PM
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I suspect there are limitations also built into the egocentric directions, and that we have trouble seeing most of them.

That passage doesn't seem to match very well with this one:

Quote:
a speaker of Tzeltal from southern Mexico was blindfolded and spun around more than 20 times in a darkened house. Still blindfolded and dizzy, he pointed without hesitation at the geographic directions.
But it wasn't clear to me whether he was in his home village -- maybe many of the cues used aren't visual.

It's also possible that some people are just better at it than others -- in fact, considering such things as the variability in ability to recognize faces, I think it would be surprising if everybody's ability at direction finding, even in cultures that prioritize it, were the same. Maybe the boy was the equivalent of dyslexic people in societies that prioritize reading; and, while he'd managed to memorize the directions in his home town, his workarounds weren't working in a strange place. Or maybe everybody in that society gets confused when they're away from home; I really can't tell from the story. But if that were considered normal, I would have expected both the teacher and the boy to have anticipated the problem. Even in societies in which most people stay home a lot more than most people in, say, the modern USA do, there's still going to be enough moving around that if people who did so ordinarily became so confused they couldn't follow ordinary conversation, I'd expect it to be a widely understood problem.
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  #146  
Old 21 November 2017, 01:32 PM
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I'm looking for a job at the moment, and had an application in via an agency with a company in Uxbridge.

Yesterday I got a call from the agency, which I was expecting to be to arrange an interview, but instead they said that the company had put the job "on hold" and was no longer recruiting but would revise the decision in a few weeks. And things are slow at the moment, and the agency doesn't have any other similar roles on the go.

Rather than thinking "Oh no, now I have to go through the whole thing again and I will be out of work for even longer," my immediate reaction was "Phew, I don't have to go to an interview! And I'm free for a bit longer!"

Uxbridge would have been a pain to get to anyway - it's a 45-minute bus ride away and there's no mainline station. But I can't help feeling as though I'm not a very good capitalist. By nature I'm definitely one of these "shirkers" that the government doesn't like.
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  #147  
Old 21 November 2017, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM View Post
My wife and I learned long ago not to use the word "right" in the context of meaning correct.)
Yep; I learned a long time ago to say "that's correct" when confirming a turn while driving/navigating.
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  #148  
Old 21 November 2017, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
Rather than thinking "Oh no, now I have to go through the whole thing again and I will be out of work for even longer," my immediate reaction was "Phew, I don't have to go to an interview! And I'm free for a bit longer!"
Somewhere, Saint Thatcher is glaring at you and muttering.
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  #149  
Old 23 November 2017, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
I'm looking for a job at the moment, and had an application in via an agency with a company in Uxbridge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfresh View Post
Somewhere, Saint Thatcher is glaring at you and muttering.
I had an interview with my job search agent today and spent yesterday and this morning doing some job application so I can honestly day I meet my requirements. I spent a bit of time stressing about doing a good application, as I did in the past. I have to remind myself that when I get my full disability insurance payout I won't have to do this, I can no longer do the work I once did owing to my disability and I have no experience doing less demanding work so therefore trying to do a perfect job application shouldn't be stressing me out. But yeah I feel like a shirker. In the past I wouldn't have considered a 45min bus ride too much. I have travelled for work for that amount of time. I also would have moved towns for work. But, now, I still feel like a shirker.

It may come from my parents and most of my Aunt's and Uncles owning their own businesses.
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  #150  
Old 27 November 2017, 03:40 PM
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I misread the headline of the latest mass-shooting episode as "Hundreds Flee as Mosque Attackers Gun Down Slippers." I'm posting this as a minor confession because it's inappropriately funny (in my head, anyway), and I feel guilty for finding anything funny in the situation.

Seaboe
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  #151  
Old 28 November 2017, 05:42 PM
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I don't really much like coffee. I'm usually just as happy drinking instant coffee as "proper" coffee. I like the occasional "hot coffee milkshake" style latte from a coffee chain, but I usually don't like the stuff that comes out of my own stove-top espresso machine, or the cafétieres / french presses that I have, or the stuff that people made in those at work.

I do like the espresso that my parents' miniature coffee-shop style machine makes, and I like a proper shot of espresso like you get in Italy, or even the UK style after a meal, but like I said, most of the time I happily just drink instant coffee.
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  #152  
Old 28 November 2017, 06:25 PM
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I don't like coffee, but I love the smell of it...go fig.
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  #153  
Old 28 November 2017, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittykins View Post
I don't like coffee, but I love the smell of it...go fig.
So I'm not the only one?! Good to know.
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  #154  
Old 28 November 2017, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
So I'm not the only one?! Good to know.
Absolutely not. If I can not enjoy a coffee flavored desert there is no practical way to put enough sugar and cream into a cup to enjoy drinking the stuff. But, I have occasionally fantasized about getting a one-cup automatic coffee maker to just have the smell to wake up to. But the realization of how wasteful that would be keeps it in the realm of "If only" dreams.
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  #155  
Old 28 November 2017, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
I've heard that too, and while it makes a lot of sense for directions (turn south instead of turn left) it seems to have some limitations. Skeptic mentioned the medical field; how would you communicate that, say, your right leg was injured using compass directions? Right and left also seem useful for rules of the road such as driving on the right side, passing on the left, etc.; in that case, the fact that "right" means opposite things to people traveling opposite directions is a feature, not a bug.
There is an entire medical vocabulary detailing locations on the body for use by medical professionals; I learned it when I became an EMT years ago. It is subject-centric and, assuming all persons involved in using the vocabulary are versed in it, pretty much confusion-free.

Edit: Probably shouldn't have used the Wikipedia link, because it heavily discusses the confusion this vocabulary causes between different fields of biology... but the original discussion here concerned human medical professionals discussing humans, in which there is no such confusion.
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  #156  
Old 28 November 2017, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crius of CoH View Post
It is subject-centric and, assuming all persons involved in using the vocabulary are versed in it, pretty much confusion-free.
My wife is a massage therapist, and would tell me things like "Ok, rub my tanterior hyperplexus?" and wonder why I had NO idea what she was talking about. She eventually learned to just point and say "Fix that!"
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  #157  
Old 28 November 2017, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
. . . if I say Jamie is to the right of Lynn in the picture, do I mean to the right of the person looking at the picture, or to Lynn's right? . . .
If I meant the first, I would say "Jamie is on the right in this picture." If I meant the second, I would say "Jamie is to Lynn's right in this picture."
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  #158  
Old 28 November 2017, 07:39 PM
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I also do not like coffee, but love the smell. I find mocha ice cream edible, too, and one of my favorite deserts is Mud Pie (which, IMNAAHO, consists of an oreo crust, a layer of coffee ice cream, a layer of mocha ice cream, fudge sauce, and sometimes whipped cream).

I also don't like tea. Before the era of offering people water when they came to interviews, I'd get offered coffee, or tea. Also, the first few times I traveled in Europe and stayed at relatively cheap places that offered continental breakfast, those were also the only morning choices.

Seaboe
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  #159  
Old 28 November 2017, 07:52 PM
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Since Thanksgiving I've been listening to the "Christmas Traditional" station on Pandora on my commute to and from work... a 45 minute drive.

Yes... not just religious carols but also all the classic dreaded "baby boomer" songs that get such a bad reaction around here... So there!

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  #160  
Old 28 November 2017, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
If I meant the first, I would say "Jamie is on the right in this picture." If I meant the second, I would say "Jamie is to Lynn's right in this picture."
I think the first of those is still ambiguous. The second, of course, relies on the person you're saying it to knowing which person in the picture is Lynn; at least, if both of them are in the middle of a larger group.

It's possible to clarify it, certainly -- "Jamie's on the right in the picture" is blurry, but "Jamie's on the right of someone looking at the picture" isn't. But I expect there are equivalent means of clarifying "my north foot". "My north foot when I'm facing west" would do, for instance; and, at least in English, in about the same number of words as in your suggestions.
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