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  #61  
Old 23 September 2017, 09:42 PM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
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Probably I am misunderstanding you. However, you seem to be saying that the only way a system can be tested is to put it out in the public and see what breaks. This is not what is done with any system. Well, except for some of the new LED lamps. Manufacturers in China are exporting LEDs to the US that do not meet FCC regulations for radio emissions. Companies in the US are buying them anyway. Fines are being imposed. Not as sexy as cars but a practical example. In this case, there are regulations but these are being ignored by the engineers at the direction of management.
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  #62  
Old 23 September 2017, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
I don't think "real world testing" really means much (is this another dumb term? probably) when they don't know what to test; they still don't have a handle on all the things that can go wrong.
Or does this mean that you think engineers and scientists can't think of every mode of failure? If so how can regulators do so?
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  #63  
Old 24 September 2017, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM View Post
However, you seem to be saying that the only way a system can be tested is to put it out in the public and see what breaks. This is not what is done with any system.
No, I was saying the opposite, countering GenYus's argument, as he put it: "that large-scale closed system testing is impractical and would probably be largely ineffectual at this point and that on-the-road testing is the most likely way that the technology will advance."

I was just disagreeing with him. I think he makes some valid points and it goes without saying his opinion is valid. I never questioned his knowledge or expertise (nor yours, nor anyone's). Neither have I held my own up as a matter of argument; so I don't know why they're suddenly being ridiculed, ad hominem. That said, I probably got what's coming for rambling on (incoherently it seems) about these things in this forum, especially when others have already pointed out most of things I'm saying in more appropriate places, where the expertise is on the table.
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  #64  
Old 24 September 2017, 03:38 PM
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And I'm probably being paranoid and seeing the anti-intellectual attitude of the Americans who support Trump (not that I am saying you support Trump) in places where it doesn't exist.
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  #65  
Old 12 October 2017, 10:53 PM
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The November issue of Car and Driver has several articles on Driverless cars. This has good explanations of almost anything you might want to know. The really scary part, to me, is a quote from the Wall Street Journal "........more than a dozen members of Tesla's Autopilot team have left in recent months over rushed deadlines and reckless marketing decisions." In other words, engineers aren't making the decisions.
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  #66  
Old 19 November 2017, 03:55 PM
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Well, we're going to find out soon in the UK too - in the new budget, Philip Hammond is removing all the annoying regulations and making a 1bn investment in the technology in order to "put the UK in the forefront of a post-Brexit technological revolution".

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...t-announcement

Quote:
Driverless cars will be on Britain’s roads by 2021 as a result of sweeping regulatory reforms that will put the UK in the forefront of a post-Brexit technological revolution, Chancellor Philip Hammond will say this week. In his budget on Wednesday Hammond will allow driverless cars to be tested without any human operator inside or outside the car, and without the legal constraints and rules that apply in many other EU nations, and much of the US.
I suppose it's not surprising that somebody who supports one thing that I think's a very bad idea which is less feasible than people think and that will have lots of unintended long-term consequences that haven't yet been properly thought through, should support another thing that I think is a bad idea which is less feasible than people think and that will have lots of unintended long-term consequences that haven't yet been properly thought through...

But unlike Brexit I'm not opposed in principle to self-driving cars, so let's hope he's right and it all goes perfectly to plan and that this is indeed going to be a unique selling point that gives us world-leading power after leaving the EU, and not something that fizzles out in all kinds of recriminations after wasting a billion pounds of investment.
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  #67  
Old 19 November 2017, 08:06 PM
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How nice of Britain to beta test it for the rest of us.
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  #68  
Old 20 November 2017, 12:24 AM
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Yes, but if the cars are proven in Great Britain, will the rest of the world (except for Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc.) have to learn to drive on the wrong side of the road?
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  #69  
Old 20 November 2017, 12:46 AM
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Depends on whether they include a software patch.
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  #70  
Old 23 November 2017, 02:02 PM
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ple-to-retrain

Quote:
Hammond has spent much of the week discussing autonomous vehicles, although a planned ride in a driverless car was ruled out by aides as a potentially unfortunate photo opportunity.
Ha ha!

Quote:
However, the budget did little to underpin his words, bar a commitment to legislate for autonomous driving without a human at the wheel – a reform already progressing through parliament in the automated and electric vehicles bill – fuelling some scepticism.
On another note, I forgot to mention this earlier, but I went away with friends last month, and we drove to Heathrow and parked in the new "pod parking". This is a new fully automated medium-term parking arrangement. You book on-line, and when you turn up, the camera at the barrier reads your numberplate, looks up the booking, puts "Hello Mr. L" on the screen and lets you in to the car park.

You park, then - the relevance here - to get to the airport itself, they have these little self-driving electric "pods", which will each take five adults with hand luggage. (Just about - it was cramped. We'd all fitted in my friend's car, though, so I guess the idea is that it will take a carful). So it's the first time I've been in a self-driving vehicle that wasn't on rails, in real life. (The DLR has been driverless for years).

There seemed to be a few teething problems with getting it to shut the door and leave - there's only one button to press, but it kept failing to do anything and saying that if we didn't press it soon we'd have to "start again". But after that, it drives you along its own little road, past other similar pods, and into a set of bays at the other end where you get out. Then it goes back for the next lot of people, although there was hardly anybody else there when we were there. The car park was pretty full but nobody arrived at the same time as we did. It took a while to get up to speed but was probably doing 30mph or so when it did.

The roadway was between quite high kerbs, though, which I had the impression it followed for guidance, and it was a dedicated self-contained route with no other traffic and no pedestrian access, so it was dodging many of the more difficult problems that a system would face on open roads. Although it wasn't on rails, in many ways it might as well have been.

It worked quite smoothly, though, and definitely felt like being "in the future", although its only real advantage over a shuttle bus or light rail was that there were always pods waiting at the end, so there was no queuing or delay. But as I said, there was nobody else there when we were, either. I don't know how it would keep up if lots of people arrived at once; the pods are too small to really want to get in them with people outside your group, and as I said, once you're in them they seemed oddly reluctant to go anywhere. You'd probably end up waiting to get into one. I suppose that it also takes up less space than a road with two-way buses as well, but it's also single use (unlike the road) and so at the moment, it's an extra system rather than a replacement.

The only problem we had with it was when I accidentally fed the parking ticket into my friend's CD player and it wouldn't come out, but that wasn't really the fault of the system... and pushing the help button on the exit gate got through to a call centre that sorted it all out pretty easily.
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  #71  
Old 14 January 2018, 06:06 PM
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GM Says Car With No Steering Wheel Or Pedals Ready For Streets In 2019

Quote:
General Motors says it is ready to mass-produce a self-driving car that has no steering wheel, pedals or any other manual controls.

The car company said Friday that it has filed a petition with the Department of Transportation for the fourth-generation Cruise AV to hit the streets in 2019.
Well, that was a lot sooner than I expected.

Wonder what's going to happen in practice?
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  #72  
Old 14 January 2018, 08:49 PM
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What happens if you need to push it off the road after a break down or accident? It blocks wherever it came to rest until a flatbed tow truck can skid it aboard?
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  #73  
Old 14 January 2018, 10:43 PM
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Don't be silly, nothing will ever go wrong... go wrong... go wrong...
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  #74  
Old 15 January 2018, 01:25 AM
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I find it interesting that the article says the passengers will be able to stop the car -- by giving it a voice command, at which point the car will choose what it thinks is a safe place to pull over.

Depending on what might have gone wrong, seems to me that a purely mechanical override would be a good idea.
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  #75  
Old 15 January 2018, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
I find it interesting that the article says the passengers will be able to stop the car -- by giving it a voice command, at which point the car will choose what it thinks is a safe place to pull over.
Everyone who has ever used a voice command device thinks this is a great idea and will work at least as well as any silly old steering wheel or brakes. (Siri, call my agent. I have a bridge in Manhattan to sell. I said "agent!" not "a gent"! Sheesh... Hello, Mr Gent. Wanna buy a bridge?)
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  #76  
Old 15 January 2018, 03:23 AM
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I'm not sure it is a voice command. It says in the article "by making a stop request." There is a big touch screen, and also, there appears to be a big button with a hazard symbol on it in the middle of the dash.

So by the looks of it, there are dedicated hardware buttons for hazard (maybe "stop request"), for volume and previous and next track, and for climate controls. Interesting choices.
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  #77  
Old 15 January 2018, 04:34 AM
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I'm only cool with this if the car sounds like Peter Cullen.
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  #78  
Old 15 January 2018, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwins View Post
I'm not sure it is a voice command. It says in the article "by making a stop request." There is a big touch screen, and also, there appears to be a big button with a hazard symbol on it in the middle of the dash.
My bad. In that case, I'm sure it will work just fine.
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  #79  
Old 15 January 2018, 01:16 PM
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A slight improvement; but still relies on the car's brain functioning properly to work.

If the reason the passengers need to stop the car is that something's gone wrong with the computer, whatever's wrong might still affect its response to the emergency button.
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  #80  
Old 15 January 2018, 02:02 PM
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It seems a basic principal to me that systems sometimes fail, and there has to be a way to override/shut off/control the failing system without relying on any aspect of the failing system to do so.

If the Stop command is on a touch screen, it's relying on some part of the car's overall system. That wouldn't be good enough for me.
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