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  #1  
Old 05 October 2017, 02:42 AM
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Default Trump Administration Denies Endangered Species Protection for 25 Species

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tru...z&ocid=U007DHP

Quote:
From walruses to turtles and woodpeckers to toads, the Trump administration Wednesday declined to list 25 species as endangered, noting that extra protection is not warranted at this time.

Of particular concern to environmental groups is the Pacific walrus, which had been considered a candidate for the list due to the dramatic loss of its Arctic sea ice habitat.
Wow, big surprise.
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  #2  
Old 05 October 2017, 04:07 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if Trump went public and called them losers or saying that he prefers species that don't go extinct*.

*so that his kids can go hunt them of course.
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  #3  
Old 05 October 2017, 04:30 AM
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Well, his sons are trophy hunters. There are now 25 more animals they can go out and shoot.
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  #4  
Old 05 October 2017, 05:49 AM
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The new head of Federal Fish and Wildlife is a hunter himself. A lot of F & W personnel are. It already seems like a conflict of interest that the same people who are in charge of preserving species are also the ones who kill for sport, but add to that political appointees and agendas and it’s just dismaying.
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  #5  
Old 05 October 2017, 09:07 AM
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The DFW has had that issue for a long time. Until probably the 60s, the idea that every wild part of the country should be exploited for the benefit of mankind (or rather, the benefit of whomever could make money off it) was accepted as the natural course of action. The idea that wild areas and native species could have a value just by existing instead of their use as a game species is rather new. The idea that we should protect species that don't have any value as hunting or fishing targets is also rather new.
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  #6  
Old 05 October 2017, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Fourteen species of Nevada springsnails... [bolding mine]
Really springsnails? Seems rather excessive.
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  #7  
Old 05 October 2017, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
The new head of Federal Fish and Wildlife is a hunter himself. A lot of F & W personnel are. It already seems like a conflict of interest that the same people who are in charge of preserving species are also the ones who kill for sport, but add to that political appointees and agendas and its just dismaying.
Teddy Roosevelt was both a big hunter and basically the founder of modern preservation. Others talked a lot about preservation but Teddy made it happen. Hunters are often the best proponents for conservation since they are (1) more knowledgeable than most people about the particular animals and (2) have a vested interest in a stable animal population.
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  #8  
Old 05 October 2017, 10:07 PM
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I’m a licensed wildlife rehabilitator. It’s my job to try to save the lives of injured and orphaned wildlife. l don't think it’s possible to convince me that people who kill animals for sport are a better choice to oversee conservation programs than the biologists, ecologists, and rehabilitators who spend their lives studying and saving those same creatures.

I do understand that there are hunters with a vested interest in a stable animal population. I work with them. But I will never be able to forget the second half of that sentence. They want the population stable...so they can continue to shoot them with guns for fun. To me, there’s a conflict of interest there, because in the end their interest is selfish. It’s about being able to continue to satisfy a personal impulse, not about saving a species for the sake of the species.

But I admit that hunting is not something I understand. When I see a magnificent animal I want to save it. Not make it bleed until it dies.
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  #9  
Old 06 October 2017, 12:05 AM
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And there are plenty of hunters who really don't care about sustainability, either. I know plenty of hunter who believe it should be their god-given right to go out and shoot as much as they want whenever they want just for the fun of it, even if they leave the carcasses to rot.

When I took an ecology course in college, the teacher was from the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife. One of the things he talked about was maintaining streams for fish and the need to balance protecting areas for threatened native species with the desires of anglers to fish for introduced brown trout, which are a predator that's one of the major threats to young fish in the places it's been introduced.

Now, I like fishing myself, but it should be a privilege, not a right: there shouldn't be any debate at all over protecting native species vs allowing fishing of an invasive, destructive predator.
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  #10  
Old 06 October 2017, 02:50 AM
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I agree there are hunters who are like the ones you're describing; but I also know hunters who are after their family's winter meat, and who despise the ones who are only out there for trophies.

In addition, if you're trying to protect endangered species in the Northeast USA, something's got to take out some of the deer population. The deer themselves are also native -- but, in their original state, they were preyed on by wolf, panther, and, yes, humans. The humans have destroyed the population of the first two in this area, and the exploded deer population will eat everything they can reach, including the forest/woodlot understory essential both for other species and to produce the next generation of trees.
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  #11  
Old 06 October 2017, 03:26 PM
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I don’t want to speak for Croc Hunter, but my assumption was that we were all discussing trophy hunting. UEL used the phrase trophy hunting, I mentioned hunting as a sport, and Croc talked about hunters who leave carcasses behind, because being an instrument of death was their only goal.

Hunters who need the meat to survive are in a whole different category than rich guys who are indulging a blood lust. And you’re right about issues like population booms. I personally prefer managing herds through neuter and release programs rather than by culling, but I understand that the nuisance animals can become a serious one.

Still, the idea of a trophy hunter being better qualified to manage state and federal Fish and Wildife services than a biologist or ecologist is pretty absurd to me.
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  #12  
Old 06 October 2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
In addition, if you're trying to protect endangered species in the Northeast USA, something's got to take out some of the deer population. The deer themselves are also native -- but, in their original state, they were preyed on by wolf, panther, and, yes, humans. The humans have destroyed the population of the first two in this area, and the exploded deer population will eat everything they can reach, including the forest/woodlot understory essential both for other species and to produce the next generation of trees.
Same in this area. It isn't good for the deer, either, as a drive through Ohio on I71 will make clear.

We are getting coyotes/coywolves in this area. IDK if they prey on deer the way wolves do. But speaking of animals that can become a nuisance. . . plus their presence leads foxes to move closer to humans/human habitations, which leads to other problems.
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  #13  
Old 06 October 2017, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Really springsnails? Seems rather excessive.
Saving the springsnails preserves the entire habitat that they are part of.

SAVING GREAT BASIN SPRINGSNAILS AND WATERSHEDS
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  #14  
Old 06 October 2017, 04:09 PM
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The excessive comment was referring to the fact that springsnails have at least 14 different species.

Also, your screen name is very funny when placed into a discussion about the best person to be responsible for animal management.
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  #15  
Old 06 October 2017, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
Still, the idea of a trophy hunter being better qualified to manage state and federal Fish and Wildife services than a biologist or ecologist is pretty absurd to me.
I agree with you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
We are getting coyotes/coywolves in this area. IDK if they prey on deer the way wolves do.
They do to some extent; but, although the eastern coyote apparently runs larger than the western version, they're not large enough to keep the population under control on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
The excessive comment was referring to the fact that springsnails have at least 14 different species.
Well, there are somewhere between 13 and 30 species of squash; about 35,000 species of spiders; and probably about 350,000 species of beetles. And that's only the ones that have been named in scientific taxonomy.

For that matter, this site says the number of species of springsnails is roughly 1000.
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  #16  
Old 06 October 2017, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Also, your screen name is very funny when placed into a discussion about the best person to be responsible for animal management.
I’d support someone called Keeper of the Mad Bunnies. Anyone who can manage emotionally volatile rabbits knows what they’re doing.
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  #17  
Old 06 October 2017, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
Id support someone called Keeper of the Mad Bunnies. Anyone who can manage emotionally volatile rabbits knows what theyre doing.
But are they emotionally volatile, or are they furious*?

And if they're angry, is it because the keeper isn't keeping them properly?

Inquiring minds want to know!




* or, possibly, furryous.


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  #18  
Old 06 October 2017, 10:19 PM
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Ah, as in PRISON keeper of the mad bunnies. Good point. I think someone has some explaining to do.
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  #19  
Old 09 October 2017, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
But are they emotionally volatile, or are they furious*?

And if they're angry, is it because the keeper isn't keeping them properly?

Inquiring minds want to know!




* or, possibly, furryous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill
Ah, as in PRISON keeper of the mad bunnies. Good point. I think someone has some explaining to do.
As in the bunnies are incredibly upset and I am the only thing keeping them from destroying the world!

Luckily, they can't agree on the way to proceed, so we all manage to survive due to arguments among the bunnies.

(Full disclosure: I do not own any real rabbits, only those of the stuffed variety.) (Not taxidermied either.)
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  #20  
Old 09 October 2017, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
The excessive comment was referring to the fact that springsnails have at least 14 different species.

Also, your screen name is very funny when placed into a discussion about the best person to be responsible for animal management.
The reason for the number is that these are isolated springs in a desert biome. Not preserving one will probably remove all inhabitants of that particular spring environment.
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