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  #121  
Old 20 August 2017, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I've encountered that mentality often enough to feel that it is not particularly unusual. It's akin, I think, to those well meaning folk who believe that if someone has a disability they must be noble and brave and good. It's naive at best and by no means is it pervasive. But it's certainly there.
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Originally Posted by mbravo View Post
I've come across it too, but in places where one can deduce that it's a case of the extreme/unreasonable/crazy voices seeming to scream the loudest, and then opponents of whatever view argue against those points rather than the more subtle points brought up by non-extremists.


edit: though I'm referring more to the people who get really aggressive about the idea, rather than people like Sue describes who have internalized a schema about people who are disabled or are part of a disenfranchised group, but aren't particularly vocal about it unless asked/brought up in the course of conversation.
Interesting.

I've certainly come across people who defend specific cultural practices; and people who defend insults if the insults are punching up instead of down; and I've also certainly come across people who say, for instance, that non-white people can't be racist. (The last of those however generally seems to me to have to do with the definition of the word "racist", as most such people I've seen actually discussing it say that anybody might be bigoted, but that to be specifically "racist" there has to be institutional racism.)

But none of that seems to me to qualify as 'carte blanc to do as one will'. I haven't come across anybody in what's generally considered the Left saying that either oppressed people in general, or specific oppressed people, are entitled to commit random murders, or rape children, or steal food from others who are starving, or poison watersheds, etc. (Daesh does seem to think they're entitled to commit murder and rape children and anything else they feel like, but I doubt anybody's describing them as SJW, and I don't get the impression that they think it's because they're oppressed.)
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  #122  
Old 20 August 2017, 01:25 AM
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Most commonly, I've seen it come up in the context of "you don't seem to care much about injustice X or Group A until a member of A does X, at which point you're all over the interwebs about it. It makes me wonder why you specifically chose to engage over the issue in that circumstance." It's not exactly a "it's wrong to criticize A for X" position as it is a "I agree X is bad, but it seems like you only care about it when you can use it to say bad things about A." It's nuanced, so it obviously gets ripped to shreds in the comments sections of most newspapers and on facebook, but that doesn't make it wrong of course. Nuance kills.

But... Every now and then, just every now and then, you will come across a moral relativist (presumably a liberal) who believes that "as long as group A, living in foreign country K, generally considers X to be culturally acceptable, it's not wrong for members of A to do X while they're in K because morality is subjective and you're racist/bigoted/xenophobic if you think otherwise." And of course those are the people that get quoted most as the leftist boogeyman and then, because their argument bares certain similarities to what I outlined in my first paragraph above, the two get lumped together as "the regressive left" (or whatever: I hadn't heard/read that term until now). It's especially easy to group the two together when quoting the people in the first paragraph out of context. Like I said: nuance kills.

That's my take on it, anyways.
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  #123  
Old 20 August 2017, 04:03 PM
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I've only ever seen "Regressive Left" used by someone against people who were fighting for social issues that the person had determined didn't matter, usually things like LGTBA rights, feminism, or the BLM movement or to cry about "free speech" in response to putting trigger warnings on content.
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  #124  
Old 20 August 2017, 04:05 PM
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The terminology isn't the issue for me. It's whether there are people who hold those opinions. There are. Dismissing this as being made up by the opposition helps no one. We are only as strong as our weakest link. Pretending there are no weak links is, at least in part, what put Trump in the White House .
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  #125  
Old 20 August 2017, 04:09 PM
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Counter-protesters block neo-Nazi march in Berlin

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...arch-in-berlin

Quote:
Far-right protesters had planned to march to the site of the former Spandau prison, where the high-ranking Nazi official hanged himself in 1987, but were forced to turn back after about half a mile because of a blockade by counter-protesters.

(...)

Authorities had imposed restrictions on the march to ensure that it passed peacefully. Organisers were told they could not glorify Hess or the Nazi regime, carry weapons, drums or torches, and could bring only one flag for every 25 participants.
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  #126  
Old 20 August 2017, 04:17 PM
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Canada Mass celebration of diversity overwhelms anti-Islam rally at city hall

In the end, the organizers of a planned “anti-Islam” rally Saturday in Vancouver only spurred a celebration of diversity, anti-fascism and tolerance of Islam so massive it spilled onto the streets outside Vancouver City Hall and shut down a nearby street.

At the peak of the counter-protest at around 2 p.m., when organizers from the Worldwide Coalition Against Islam Canada and the Cultural Action Party of Canada had been expected to speak out against federal immigration policy, about 4,000 people surrounded city hall, according to a police estimate.

The anti-Islam rally organizers were nowhere to be found.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...uver-city-hall
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  #127  
Old 20 August 2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
The terminology isn't the issue for me. It's whether there are people who hold those opinions. There are. Dismissing this as being made up by the opposition helps no one. We are only as strong as our weakest link. Pretending there are no weak links is, at least in part, what put Trump in the White House .
Sue, was that in response to my post #121? Are you saying there are people who really hold the opinion that oppressed people are entitled to do anything whatsoever, as described in that post?

And no, we're not only as strong as our weakest link. If no movement were stronger than its weakest link, no movement would ever accomplish anything whatsoever.
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  #128  
Old 20 August 2017, 04:34 PM
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I was following snopes policy (or what used to be snopes policy I think) about not quoting if you are responding to the post directly above yours.
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  #129  
Old 21 August 2017, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
The anti-Islam rally organizers were nowhere to be found.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...uver-city-hall

That happened many years ago in DC, but it was Kook Klux Klan that had planned a rally.
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  #130  
Old 21 August 2017, 02:58 PM
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Default Quebec-City protests: anti-fascist counter-protesters clash with police

A counter-protest to a planned far-right demonstration in Quebec City turned violent Sunday afternoon, after protesters clashed with police officers.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3683586/co...n-quebec-city/

You cover your face and attack journalists and the police? Thanks for playing into the far rights hands people .
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  #131  
Old 21 August 2017, 04:22 PM
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Given that the attackers were masked and infiltrating peaceful rallies and starting violence is a known tactic for fascists, I think we should avoid laying blame until the perpetrators have been positively identified.
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  #132  
Old 21 August 2017, 04:26 PM
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Default The Rise of the Violent Left

Antifa’s activists say they’re battling burgeoning authoritarianism on the American right. Are they fueling it instead?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...t-left/534192/
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  #133  
Old 22 August 2017, 02:43 AM
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Sue, my eyes may never stop rolling in response to that article. I'm having annoying flashbacks to the Milo clusterNFBSK where while everyone whinged and whined about those mean ol' protesters, people were oddly silent about how one of Milo's cheerleaders had actually nfbsking shot someone, a crime which seems way more serious than whatever those awful Berkeley kids were supposed to have done.

I imagine whoever wrote that editorial would have, during the Civil Rights Era, been like "If MLK is all about nonviolent resistance, then why does so much violence occur wherever he goes?" For the record, as this link shows, that was the oft-made argument during that era. It almost seems like no one likes having attention called to massive societal injustices and therefore look for any excuse to ignore those who are calling attention, but surely that can't be the case.
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  #134  
Old 25 August 2017, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Turd Reich: San Francisco dog owners lay minefield of poo for rightwing rally

When a group of far-right activists come to San Francisco to hold a rally this Saturday, they will be met by peace activists offering them flowers to wear in their hair.

Also, dog shit. Lots and lots of dog shit.

Hundreds of San Franciscans plan to prepare Crissy Field, the picturesque beach in the shadow of the Golden Gate Bridge where rightwing protest group Patriot Prayer will gather, with a generous carpeting of excrement.
They are planning to come together the next day to “clean up the mess and hug each other”, too.

Also, you can pledge §1 for every white supremacist turning up in San Fancisco as a donation to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Nice idea.
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  #135  
Old 07 October 2017, 12:05 PM
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Jaded Congressman suggests Charlottesville instigated by the left

Republican Rep. Paul Gosar is suggesting a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville was instigated by "the left" and backed by billionaire George Soros.

The Arizona congressman, in an interview published Thursday by Vice News, described the rally's organizer as "a person from Occupy Wall Street that was an Obama sympathizer."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...-left-50337084
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  #136  
Old 07 October 2017, 04:06 PM
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Roll eyes

Is he going to get a colonoscopy so he can cite his evidence?
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  #137  
Old 02 December 2017, 04:11 PM
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Default What Went Wrong In Charlottesville? Almost Everything, Says Report

What Went Wrong In Charlottesville? Almost Everything, Says Report

Quote:
An independent review of Charlottesville's handling of the white nationalist rally there in August found that law enforcement and city officials made several significant mistakes
White Supremacists Were Ready for Violence in Charlottesville. The Police Were Not.

Quote:
The police badly mishandled white supremacist rallies in Charlottesville, Va., in August, failing to give officers needed training, gear and marching orders, and remaining passive as bloody clashes between protesters and counterprotesters raged around them, a former federal prosecutor reported on Friday.
[ . . . ]
Mr. Heaphy’s law firm, Hunton & Williams, drafted a report more than 200 pages long that was released on Friday, detailing many basic tactical mistakes, including a failure to keep the factions apart, coordinate among law enforcement agencies, react to violence, or call in available reinforcements. The investigators found fault with elected city leaders and University of Virginia officials, but pointed their sharpest criticism at the Charlottesville Police Department, or C.P.D., and the Virginia State Police, or V.S.P.
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